lets hear your stories and post some pics up!
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who likes model 50's?
bobski
61 - 80 of 95 Posts
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8,771 Posts
spring inspection.
a new recoil spring should be 13". as it wears, the bolt flies back with more force. when the spring length falls below 10.5-11". its time to change it. if you dont, you can crack the receiver. not many know this. now you do. 12ga springs are easy to find. wolffe spring co. makes them.
20ga springs are not made by anyone. good luck finding a 20ga nos spring.
note small crack forming at the end of the bolt handle channel, where the bolt handle struck it over time..................
![Image]()
a new recoil spring should be 13". as it wears, the bolt flies back with more force. when the spring length falls below 10.5-11". its time to change it. if you dont, you can crack the receiver. not many know this. now you do. 12ga springs are easy to find. wolffe spring co. makes them.
20ga springs are not made by anyone. good luck finding a 20ga nos spring.
note small crack forming at the end of the bolt handle channel, where the bolt handle struck it over time..................
Joined
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8,771 Posts
the mystery bolt
early guns and newer guns had different bolt designs. problem is, no one knows when or why the change was made.
some speculate that it was to allow the bolt to clear the back of the receiver guts on the inside. yet, un-modified bolts work just fine. i tend to find the tall lug bolts mostly on 1954/55 guns. keep in mind, thousands of owners bought, sold and swapped out parts so often, (and still do,) you may find them all over the inventory of existing m50's nationwide.
note tall chunk of steel on top of early bolt in pic 1. note new bolt pic 2 is more curved and slopes............
![Image]()
![Image]()
early guns and newer guns had different bolt designs. problem is, no one knows when or why the change was made.
some speculate that it was to allow the bolt to clear the back of the receiver guts on the inside. yet, un-modified bolts work just fine. i tend to find the tall lug bolts mostly on 1954/55 guns. keep in mind, thousands of owners bought, sold and swapped out parts so often, (and still do,) you may find them all over the inventory of existing m50's nationwide.
note tall chunk of steel on top of early bolt in pic 1. note new bolt pic 2 is more curved and slopes............
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8,771 Posts
the far flung hull mod
the m50 was known for REALLY tossing its spent hulls. a factory recall bulletin came out showing smiths how to reshape the ejector and snip the spring.
i cant find a pic of the bulletin. give me time i will find it and post it.
winchester knew semi autos use to bounce hulls off guys next to the ones using semi autos . it didnt make for a happy trap shooting experience. so winchester made a special trap chamber for the trap models. it deflected the hulls down and forward. they are hens teeth and most of the inventory was sold to skeet gun owners wanting them. yet, to find one today anywhere is rare.
do you own a trap m50? check your chamber. hope its there.
![Image]()
![Image]()
![Image]()
the m50 was known for REALLY tossing its spent hulls. a factory recall bulletin came out showing smiths how to reshape the ejector and snip the spring.
i cant find a pic of the bulletin. give me time i will find it and post it.
winchester knew semi autos use to bounce hulls off guys next to the ones using semi autos . it didnt make for a happy trap shooting experience. so winchester made a special trap chamber for the trap models. it deflected the hulls down and forward. they are hens teeth and most of the inventory was sold to skeet gun owners wanting them. yet, to find one today anywhere is rare.
do you own a trap m50? check your chamber. hope its there.
Joined
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8,771 Posts
ejection port revamp
for those that dont have the resources to put a steel trap gun next to a featherweight (A) trap gun, allow me to show you the differences between the two loading ports. (steel gun is on top in pic)
as mentioned, early m50's had a shell deflector chamber to throw the hull forward so it wouldnt bounce off shooters to the right.
when the featherweight was designed, they made the loading port smaller and left out the beveled top edge. i used pencils the best i could to show the difference in size . note the space to the rear that normally is taken up by the deflector chamber. it was filled in when the alloy receiver was made. thus why you dont need or find deflector chambers on a featherweight trap guns. many who own featherweights will tell you dropping a shell in a featherweight takes a little more tinkering than a steel receiver. yet, when it ejects, it tends to go down and forward more often. was it perfect? no. and if youre a lefty like me, all it did was cause the hull to bounce off my forearm and hit the guys next to me anyway. lol. you dont see me using m50 trap guns often these days. old timers know them too well and avoid squading with me! :>
more to come...
i will address the drooping trigger assy and the tilting hammer.
![Image]()
for those that dont have the resources to put a steel trap gun next to a featherweight (A) trap gun, allow me to show you the differences between the two loading ports. (steel gun is on top in pic)
as mentioned, early m50's had a shell deflector chamber to throw the hull forward so it wouldnt bounce off shooters to the right.
when the featherweight was designed, they made the loading port smaller and left out the beveled top edge. i used pencils the best i could to show the difference in size . note the space to the rear that normally is taken up by the deflector chamber. it was filled in when the alloy receiver was made. thus why you dont need or find deflector chambers on a featherweight trap guns. many who own featherweights will tell you dropping a shell in a featherweight takes a little more tinkering than a steel receiver. yet, when it ejects, it tends to go down and forward more often. was it perfect? no. and if youre a lefty like me, all it did was cause the hull to bounce off my forearm and hit the guys next to me anyway. lol. you dont see me using m50 trap guns often these days. old timers know them too well and avoid squading with me! :>
more to come...
i will address the drooping trigger assy and the tilting hammer.
Joined
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8,771 Posts
butt heavy guns
many owners back in the day complained about the m50's balance. i found that most field and skeet guns had a cavity drilled out of the stocks butt. i found trap guns to have the wood intact to allow for a pad to be installed. what year they did this is unknown.
what is yours?
most owners used the cavity to install recoil reducers, even though the gun doesnt really need one.
![Image]()
many owners back in the day complained about the m50's balance. i found that most field and skeet guns had a cavity drilled out of the stocks butt. i found trap guns to have the wood intact to allow for a pad to be installed. what year they did this is unknown.
what is yours?
most owners used the cavity to install recoil reducers, even though the gun doesnt really need one.
Joined
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8,771 Posts
improperly modified stocks
the diagram that i posted a few posts back is out of the winchester shop manual. it shows the location of where the washers should go.
the problem, (is as with many winchester shotguns,) is so many have been parted together, stripped for re-sale of parts on ebay and just plain frankengunned, that you cant tell just by year or serial number ranges anymore, to know whether or not the mod has been done to your gun.
in a perfect world, as original owner, 70 years ago, with authorized winchester repair facilites......the correct way to modify an early model 50 stock BEFORE the mod was done to all guns off the assembly line, was as follows:
the mod instructions were dated july 1957, so that means all guns prior to 1957 needed the mod.
fast forward to modern time.
so, is the gun you have in your hands in original condition? meaning, can you confirm it wasnt sold to you as a parts gun? if you can, and if your gun is pre 1957, it most likely needs the washers. if its post 1957, it was done from the factory on all new guns.
problem.
if your gun is a 'gunbroken or a fleebay' wood stock special, the seller could have built or sold the gun from parts, mixing stocks up on guns that are post 57. there is no way to know unless you mike out the wood inside.
heres what happens.
if you put a stock on a gun that has not been modified for washers, its too short inside and it'll loosen. when it loosens, people buy the washers, but dont bore out the wood for them to fit. so now they got 2 washers in the unmodified wood stock. they go to tighten up the stock, but because they changed the OL of the recoil spring tube, the recoil spring and op rod recoils back to where its suppose to be, but there is a gap between the properly adjusted cap and the safety clip. hazard? you now have a gun set up to recoil too far as the cap loosens out, causing the bolt assy to travel too far back cracking the receiver as the cap turns and loosens from recoil after recoil until it stops as it hits the clip. and double those odds of cracking if the spring is old and worn.
the holes for the clip were drilled where the cap is suppose to be, but the extra wood still inside, with washers installed, causes the stock to tighten too soon, making the cap never reach the clip area on the tube when adjusted properly.
if you get washers and assemble your gun, if there is a gap between the clip and top of the cap after the gun is PROPERLY TIMED with 3/16" play in the bolt handle (adjusted iaw the manual,) it means your wood wasnt bored. you either must have it bored or do the bobski quick fix.
when you install the new washers AND REPLACE THE RECOIL SPRING WITH A NEW ONE, take either a dime or penny and place it over the top of the cap and under the clip after you make the proper adjustment. this will force the cap from advancing outward. it will make the cap stay where it is properly adjusted deeper inside the tube and itll put pressure on the clip forcing the cap from backing out.
![Image]()
hope this helps.
the diagram that i posted a few posts back is out of the winchester shop manual. it shows the location of where the washers should go.
the problem, (is as with many winchester shotguns,) is so many have been parted together, stripped for re-sale of parts on ebay and just plain frankengunned, that you cant tell just by year or serial number ranges anymore, to know whether or not the mod has been done to your gun.
in a perfect world, as original owner, 70 years ago, with authorized winchester repair facilites......the correct way to modify an early model 50 stock BEFORE the mod was done to all guns off the assembly line, was as follows:
- have gunsmith order the 2 washers.
- have the gunsmith remove wood the equal thickness of the 2 washers from the stock cavity.
- have gunsmith install the 2 washers.
- reassemble gun modified.
the mod instructions were dated july 1957, so that means all guns prior to 1957 needed the mod.
fast forward to modern time.
so, is the gun you have in your hands in original condition? meaning, can you confirm it wasnt sold to you as a parts gun? if you can, and if your gun is pre 1957, it most likely needs the washers. if its post 1957, it was done from the factory on all new guns.
problem.
if your gun is a 'gunbroken or a fleebay' wood stock special, the seller could have built or sold the gun from parts, mixing stocks up on guns that are post 57. there is no way to know unless you mike out the wood inside.
heres what happens.
if you put a stock on a gun that has not been modified for washers, its too short inside and it'll loosen. when it loosens, people buy the washers, but dont bore out the wood for them to fit. so now they got 2 washers in the unmodified wood stock. they go to tighten up the stock, but because they changed the OL of the recoil spring tube, the recoil spring and op rod recoils back to where its suppose to be, but there is a gap between the properly adjusted cap and the safety clip. hazard? you now have a gun set up to recoil too far as the cap loosens out, causing the bolt assy to travel too far back cracking the receiver as the cap turns and loosens from recoil after recoil until it stops as it hits the clip. and double those odds of cracking if the spring is old and worn.
the holes for the clip were drilled where the cap is suppose to be, but the extra wood still inside, with washers installed, causes the stock to tighten too soon, making the cap never reach the clip area on the tube when adjusted properly.
if you get washers and assemble your gun, if there is a gap between the clip and top of the cap after the gun is PROPERLY TIMED with 3/16" play in the bolt handle (adjusted iaw the manual,) it means your wood wasnt bored. you either must have it bored or do the bobski quick fix.
when you install the new washers AND REPLACE THE RECOIL SPRING WITH A NEW ONE, take either a dime or penny and place it over the top of the cap and under the clip after you make the proper adjustment. this will force the cap from advancing outward. it will make the cap stay where it is properly adjusted deeper inside the tube and itll put pressure on the clip forcing the cap from backing out.
hope this helps.
Joined
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8,771 Posts
do you have any idea how much an 1100 has written on it?
they all do.
its why gun forums came into existence. to share knowledge.
most of what i wrote applies to a few hundreds of guns ive seen and inspected. not all of the topics apply to one single gun every time.
collectors prefer perfect. so i help them know what perfect is. guns without a lot of these mods still operate safely and have for decades.
and you can count on mine being inspected and pass muster.
perfectionists dive into the depth of any gun to learn it.
this is why elsewhere i was talking about how people butcher and swap out perfectly good guns for no reason.
at least on this gun, professionals who designed it, changed it for us in writing. they gave us a road map.
the only issue ive had with my personal m50 is the need to clean it. oil it. and put it up. 15 years now. no issues.
they all do.
its why gun forums came into existence. to share knowledge.
most of what i wrote applies to a few hundreds of guns ive seen and inspected. not all of the topics apply to one single gun every time.
collectors prefer perfect. so i help them know what perfect is. guns without a lot of these mods still operate safely and have for decades.
and you can count on mine being inspected and pass muster.
perfectionists dive into the depth of any gun to learn it.
this is why elsewhere i was talking about how people butcher and swap out perfectly good guns for no reason.
at least on this gun, professionals who designed it, changed it for us in writing. they gave us a road map.
the only issue ive had with my personal m50 is the need to clean it. oil it. and put it up. 15 years now. no issues.
Joined
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8,771 Posts
worn or drooping trigger assy
when buying a m50, grab the trigger guard and try pulling the unit out of the receiver. does it wiggle? it shouldnt move. check to see if the factory made the trigger guard flush with the receiver. if not, the hammer has to reach for the firing pin transfer bar and doesnt strike it flush. there is a certain plus or minus (+/-.) i dont have it in front of me just now.
cause of a worn/loose unit is... a worn trigger group pin hole and receiver pin hole. this issue is most common on ALLOY receivers, not steel receivers.
heres a pic off the web of a good trigger unit to reciever fit.........
![Image]()
when buying a m50, grab the trigger guard and try pulling the unit out of the receiver. does it wiggle? it shouldnt move. check to see if the factory made the trigger guard flush with the receiver. if not, the hammer has to reach for the firing pin transfer bar and doesnt strike it flush. there is a certain plus or minus (+/-.) i dont have it in front of me just now.
cause of a worn/loose unit is... a worn trigger group pin hole and receiver pin hole. this issue is most common on ALLOY receivers, not steel receivers.
heres a pic off the web of a good trigger unit to reciever fit.........
Joined
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8,771 Posts
hammer wobble
this is the result of a worn trigger group hammer pin hole.
you have a steel hammer pivoting on a steel pin, inserted in the ALLOY trigger group.
AS THE PIN HOLE WEARS, the hammer tilts or wobbles....and comes of sear.
replace trigger group.
btw.........ALL TRIGGER GROUPS ARE ALLOY.
this is the result of a worn trigger group hammer pin hole.
you have a steel hammer pivoting on a steel pin, inserted in the ALLOY trigger group.
AS THE PIN HOLE WEARS, the hammer tilts or wobbles....and comes of sear.
replace trigger group.
btw.........ALL TRIGGER GROUPS ARE ALLOY.
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8,771 Posts
for the record, all vent rib models coincide with model 12 vent rib designs, except model 50's dont have solid ribs or oval shaped posts at all.
first year was the donut post vent rib.
then the round post rib.
then the 3 pin square ribs.
im away from my donut post gun, so im using a m12 pic to show it............
![Image]()
![Image]()
![Image]()
first year was the donut post vent rib.
then the round post rib.
then the 3 pin square ribs.
im away from my donut post gun, so im using a m12 pic to show it............
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8,771 Posts
Joined
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8,771 Posts
heres the link for the recoil spring company.............
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8,771 Posts
the mysterious A suffix
the model 50 came in 2 configurations, the standard steel receiver and an alloy receiver called the featherweight. the early 50's had an A suffix in the serial number, identifying the featherweights as......... ALLOY. the later ones had the word FEATHERWEIGHT spelled out below the serial number.
featherweights had a new factory update in the form of an anti crack hole drilled at the end of the bolt handle channel to address the cracks forming from worn springs. it lengthened the channel and in case of a rogue hit, the force was sent in all directions, not just one place.
it was common for smith's to lengthen the channel on steel guns. some have been seen with the featherweight style hole as well.
you never know what youll find out there.
the model 50 came in 2 configurations, the standard steel receiver and an alloy receiver called the featherweight. the early 50's had an A suffix in the serial number, identifying the featherweights as......... ALLOY. the later ones had the word FEATHERWEIGHT spelled out below the serial number.
featherweights had a new factory update in the form of an anti crack hole drilled at the end of the bolt handle channel to address the cracks forming from worn springs. it lengthened the channel and in case of a rogue hit, the force was sent in all directions, not just one place.
it was common for smith's to lengthen the channel on steel guns. some have been seen with the featherweight style hole as well.
you never know what youll find out there.
Joined
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8,771 Posts
if you ever come across a 20ga m50 that has this on the left side of its receiver, it means it was modified to shoot 28ga by simmons. it only works if its used in conjuction with a 28ga chamber. be careful to check that. someone may have converted it back to 20. dont go thinking you can put a 28ga in it.
![Image]()
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8,771 Posts
this is the proper way to adjust a recoil spring in the buttstock.........
remove the pin in the stock.
close the bolt. turn the plug in until bolt will NOT lock back when cycled.
begin turning plug out in 1/2 turn segments until it DOES lock back.
keep it locked back.
begin turning plug out in 1/4 turn segments until it moves only the 1/8" required from locked back to "cant go any further."
reinstall pin.
-------------
thats what most people do and stop.
BUT......
if because of a worn spring, your plug goes deeper in the tube, not allowing the pin to engage the plug slot, the plug will move out over time, throwing off your timing. or worse, crack your receiver.
if you value your gun, order a new wolffe spring. might want to take it out and measure it. and cover your eyes...unless you catch it as it comes out behind the plug! lol. new spring measures out 13". your spring is shot under 11". change it and that should give you back the distance required on the plug pin engagement.
or, shim up the distance from the plug face to the pin installed in its holes. (a penny or dime works)
as long as you keep the proper play in check by tightening the plug in, youre keeping the bolt from moving back on recoil too far.
but youll need to shim the distance to the back of the pin. if it gets beyond a penny, in my opinion, its time for a new spring.
btw..ive seen everything from popsickle sticks, aluminium foil, rocks, bingo chips, etc... in those tubes!
hope this helps.
remove the pin in the stock.
close the bolt. turn the plug in until bolt will NOT lock back when cycled.
begin turning plug out in 1/2 turn segments until it DOES lock back.
keep it locked back.
begin turning plug out in 1/4 turn segments until it moves only the 1/8" required from locked back to "cant go any further."
reinstall pin.
-------------
thats what most people do and stop.
BUT......
if because of a worn spring, your plug goes deeper in the tube, not allowing the pin to engage the plug slot, the plug will move out over time, throwing off your timing. or worse, crack your receiver.
if you value your gun, order a new wolffe spring. might want to take it out and measure it. and cover your eyes...unless you catch it as it comes out behind the plug! lol. new spring measures out 13". your spring is shot under 11". change it and that should give you back the distance required on the plug pin engagement.
or, shim up the distance from the plug face to the pin installed in its holes. (a penny or dime works)
as long as you keep the proper play in check by tightening the plug in, youre keeping the bolt from moving back on recoil too far.
but youll need to shim the distance to the back of the pin. if it gets beyond a penny, in my opinion, its time for a new spring.
btw..ive seen everything from popsickle sticks, aluminium foil, rocks, bingo chips, etc... in those tubes!
hope this helps.
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