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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 870 I would like to send to my son he lives in NC and I live in Wisc what do I need to do to ship it to him he's not buying it I'm giving it to him do need to ship to a FFL or can I send to his home address
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I would suggest a transfer form between the 2 of you and all that is needed is that it be sent 2nd day or quicker. The transfer form is just a formality showing that it has left one owner to the next and doesn't need to be notarized or any thing just signed by a witness( some one not owning the gun before or after transfer) showing that it took place. Both people hold a copy after the process is complete.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes rifles and shotguns have to go (interstate) from you to an FFL in our son's state. (handgun is FFL to FFL) Much easier if he picks up the shotgun from you in Wisconsin the next time he visits or you take it to him in N.C. when you visit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes rifles and shotguns have to go (interstate) from you to an FFL in our son's state. (handgun is FFL to FFL) Much easier if he picks up the shotgun from you in Wisconsin the next time he visits or you take it to him in N.C. when you visit.
Nope! A handgun does not have to be shipped FFL to FFL. I hear this all the time, and it's just not true. However, a handgun must go common carrier (FedEx or UPS). Long guns can go USPS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This should explain it clearly

Do you have an ATF reference or federal statute for this? My Dept. of Justice, AFT Federal Firearms Regulation book seems to indicate otherwise.
GunBroker.com - Help Center

Firearms Shipping Guide


Overview
This page provides information about Federal Laws, step that must be followed, and notes on using specific shippers when shipping firearms. This page is oriented toward the seller of an item. If you need information about how to buy a firearm through GunBroker.com, please refer to our Buyer's Tutorial.
This page contains information oriented toward persons shipping firearms within the United States. For sellers located outside the United States, please see our
Import / Export page.

Shipping Legalities
Federal Law requires that all modern firearms be shipped to a holder of a valid Federal Firearms License (FFL) only. The recipient must have an FFL; however the sender is not required to have one. Any person who is legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder for any legal purpose (including sale or resale).
Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.'Antique' firearms need not be shipped to a licensed dealer. These can be shipped directly to the buyer. An antique firearm is a firearm built in or before 1898, or a replica thereof. The exact ATF definition of an antique firearm is:
Antique firearm. (a) Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and (b) any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (a) of this definition if such replica (1) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (2) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.


Knives, air guns, accessories, and most gun parts need not be shipped to an FFL holder. We say most gun parts because each firearm contains at least one part that the ATF considers a firearm. This part is typically the part that contains the serial number. This part must be treated as a complete firearm when shipping the item.
Ammunition must be clearly identified as 'Small Arms Ammunition' on the outside of the box. Some shippers treat ammunition as dangerous or hazardous materials.The section of the US Code that governs modern firearms is called Commerce in Firearms and Ammunition (CFA). This code is available online at:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_09/27cfr478_09.htmlWhen in doubt, we suggest arranging for transfer through a licensed dealer. Violation of the CFA is a felony and penalties for violation of it are severe.
Federal and State Law Resources
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) has a very comprehensive site containing information about the various Federal and state laws regulating firearms. Please refer to the ATF information for legal questions regarding firearms.
ATF Home page:

http://www.atf.gov
ATF Compilation of the various state laws: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5.pdf
ATF Firearms Division Main Page: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/Shipment by Unlicensed Persons
Any shipper who does not have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is considered to be an 'unlicensed person'. This section contains information on how unlicensed persons can ship firearms. If you have an FFL, please skip to the next section for shipping suggestions.

The most important thing to know is that you must only ship guns to a licensed dealer. If the buyer is not a licensed dealer, he will have to make arrangements to ship the item to a dealer in his state.
Before you ship a gun, the buyer must fax or mail you a copy of the dealer's signed FFL license. You can only ship the gun to the address on the license. You must inform the carrier that the package contains a firearm. Of course, the firearm cannot be shipped loaded; ammunition may not be shipped in the same box. You should take the copy of the signed FFL with you when you take the item to be shipped in case the shipper wishes to see it.
Notes on specific shippers:US Mail: An unlicensed person can ship a rifle or shotgun by US Mail. Unlicensed persons cannot ship a handgun by US Mail. Postal regulations allow the Post Office to open your package for inspection. Ammunition cannot be shipped by US Mail. You can search the
US Post Office Postal Explorer site for specific USPS regulations regarding firearms and ammunition.

FedEx Express: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service. Ammunition must be shipped as hazardous goods via Ground in compliance with ORM-D.FedEx Ground:
FedEx Ground will transport and deliver firearms (excluding handguns) as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S. Ammunition must be shipped as hazardous goods via Ground in compliance with ORM-D.

UPS: UPS will accept handgun shipments by Next Day Air only. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by UPS ground service. UPS will accept shipments of ammunition. Most other shippers will no longer accept firearm shipments. Airborne and Roadway have specifically prohibited firearm shipments.
Shipment by Licensed Persons
Any shipper who has a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is considered to be a 'licensed person'. This section contains information on how licensed persons can ship firearms. If you do not have an FFL, please see the previous section of this page for shipping instructions.
Since licensed persons are responsible for knowing the law, we are going to assume that you already understand the CGA and know the applicable Federal, state, and local laws.
Notes on specific shippers:US Mail: Licensed persons can ship a rifle, shotguns, or handguns by US Mail. In fact, we suggest that you use the USPS as it is now the most cost-effective way to ship a handgun. To ship a rifle or shotgun, you need only inform the Post Office that the package contains a firearm. A licensed manufacturer, dealer, or importer can ship a handgun via the US Post Office if the licensed dealer fills out a
US Post Office Form PS 1508 and files it with the local Post Office branch where the handgun is to be shipped. You can search the US Post Office Postal Explorer site for specific USPS regulations regarding firearms and ammunition.

FedEx Express: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service. Ammunition must be shipped as hazardous goods via Ground in compliance with ORM-D.
UPS: UPS will accept handgun shipments by Next Day Air only. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by UPS ground service. UPS will accept shipments of ammunition.
Most other shippers will no longer accept firearm shipments. Airborne and Roadway have specifically prohibited firearm shipments.Notes on USPS Firearm Regulations
We recommend that you read the Post Office regulations on
Other Restricted or Nonmailable Matter before shipping a firearm through the US Mail.

The following info comes from the USPS Regulation DMM Issue 54, January 10, 1999, section C-024
Page C-39, section 3.0, Rifles and Shotguns: "Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 1.1e and 1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act or 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated there under, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 1.1e."
Page C-39, section 6.0, PROHIBITED PARCEL MARKING: "For any parcel containing a firearm or a ballistic or switchblade knife, any marking that indicates the contents is not permitted on the outside wrapper or container."
The following pertains only to licensed dealers shipping handguns:
Page C-37, section 1.3, Authorized Persons: "Subject to 1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government......."
Page C-38, section 1.5, Manufacturers and Dealers: "Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts."Page C-38, section 1.6, Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers: "A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major components thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms."
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Frenchy wrote: "Nope! A handgun does not have to be shipped FFL to FFL. I hear this all the time, and it's just not true. However, a handgun must go common carrier (FedEx or UPS). Long guns can go USPS."

Thanks for the run down on shipping firearms. However you need to help me here. I read all that you posted and I have found nothing to support the above notion that a handgun does not need to be shipped FFL to FFL.

My review of the Federal statutes is handguns must be shipped regardless of carrier FFL to FFL. The only exception I could find under fed regulation is when you ship a handgun to yourself as in the situation when moving to a different state, but this can not be via USPS.

A non FFL can ship a long gun interstate via any carriers to an FFL. I also discovered that FFL to FFL handguns can go USPS. But non-FFL can't ship handguns via USPS to a FFL. Complicated as best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Frenchy wrote: "Nope! A handgun does not have to be shipped FFL to FFL. I hear this all the time, and it's just not true. However, a handgun must go common carrier (FedEx or UPS). Long guns can go USPS."

Thanks for the run down on shipping firearms. However you need to help me here. I read all that you posted and I have found nothing to support the above notion that a handgun does not need to be shipped FFL to FFL.

My review of the Federal statutes is handguns must be shipped regardless of carrier FFL to FFL. The only exception I could find under fed regulation is when you ship a handgun to yourself as in the situation when moving to a different state, but this can not be via USPS.

A non FFL can ship a long gun interstate via any carriers to an FFL. I also discovered that FFL to FFL handguns can go USPS. But non-FFL can't ship handguns via USPS to a FFL. Complicated as best.
Darryl!...It doesn't get much clearer:

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Like Darryl, I was also under the impression that I could ship a handgun to myself in another state by common carrier. So if I am legal to possess the handgun in both states, no big deal. Then let's say you transfer it to your son in the "other" state... I wonder if you would be required to make the transfer with an assist from an FFL there to make it legal. Might be easier to buy him a gun in his home state !
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi Frenchie:

Hey Frenchie you're kill my tired eyes having me read federal statutes! : ) LOL Anyway the above quote 18 USC 922 (a) (2) (A) specially applies when a non-FFL is returning a firearm to the FFL for replacement. 18 USC 922 (e) as cited in the quote requries the sender to tell the carrier what's inside. 27 CFR178.31 merely regulates the common carriers. The statement in the Gunbroker site isn't completely accurate as stated in the federal law itself.

But I think we do agree. We just need to put these situations in to "boxes. See my original post response with the shotgun going from Wis. to NC. and side reference to handguns

I think this is what the law is:


1. Long gun interstate non-FFL to FFL OK
2. Hand gun interstate FFL to FFL USPS OK
3. Long gun interstate non-FFL owner to (self) owner OK (handgun too?)
4. Hand gun interstate non-FFL seller to non-FFL buyer not OK.
5. Long gun intrastate non-FFL seller to non-FFL buyer OK
6. Handgun intrastate non-FFL owner to non-FFL buyer OK but not via USPS
7. Hand or long gun non-FFL owner to FFL for replacement etc and back again OK

If even we don't agree, we do agree this is a mess and what gun owners need to deal with. But at least we all agree with the second amendment
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I don't think 922 specifically applies to shipping firearms to the manufacturer.

It is legal to ship any weapon to a gunsmith in any state and have it returned back to you.

But as for transferring a firearm (any of them out of the same state) must go only to an FFL.

Handguns can't go USPS unless you're a dealer.

It is legal to ship a long gun to a non-licensee in your own state. As has been said repeatedly, you cannot ship anything out of your state to a non-licensee.

The original post had nothing to do with pistols.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Have it your own way, Darryl. I've shipping handguns to individuals through their FFL's, to manufactures, to dealers, etc. for well over 20 years, and have never run afoul of the law.
 
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