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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Don't have one but know I need to have a shotgun in the arsenal. Here is my intent - home defense, SHTF type gun, might get into some 3 gun comp's - not really interested in a Saiga

What do you think/recommend

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
As far as quality at a great price, a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 would be the way to go. If you want to spend the extra money for something a bit nicer, look into Benelli.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
In my opinion, one of the best kept secrets for a home defense shotgun is the 20 gauge Remington Express Jr with a Youth stock, 18.5" barrel, 12 inch length of pull. It has an overall length of only 37 inches and weighs under 6 lbs. This guns is particularly useful for anyone who might be recoil sensitive or for smaller framed ladies or young teens in the home who may be forced to use the shotgun for self defense if dad is not home. The recoil from the 20 gauge is 40% to 45% LESS than from a similarly equipped 12 gauge, but for home defense distances, using 2¾" #3 buckshot, it is just as deadly.

Studies have shown that it is much easier for a large individual to get used to shooting a smaller gun than for a small person to be able to shoot a larger gun.

You can easily find 2¾" #3 buckshot and even 3" #2 buckshot is available. If you want to spend the money, you can even get Tactical 20 Gauge 2¾" #00 buck shot from Paraklese Technologies.
Paraklese Technologies 20 gauge 00 Buckshot

Here is what I would recommend for home defense:
Pump Action Shotguns - Model 870 Express Jr - Special Run Shotgun - Remington Shotguns

I have used this same shotgun at the range as well as while hunting and compared to shooting a 12 gauge, the little 20 gauge is much easier to maneuver and actually a pleasure to shoot, especially if you are wearing a coat to further reduce the felt recoil on the shoulder.

You can often find these little jewels on sale at Dunham's or Gander Mountain for under $300 and quite often, Remington will also give you a $30 mail-in rebate.

Here is an excellent article by Massad Ayoob explaining why he recommends a 20 gauge shotgun for most uses especially for home defense.
Consider the 20-gauge shotgun by Massad Ayoob Issue #120

You can get an 18.5" rifled barrel with cantilever scope mount for it and end up with a sweet deer gun.

I can personally attest to the lethality of 20 gauge sabot slugs on whitetail deer at distances of 97 yards and beyond.

Below are a couple of excellent ProArms Podcasts Produced by Gail Pepin and featuring John and Terri Strayer, Massad Ayoob, Herman Gunter and other shotgun experts. Each podcast is almost one hour long, but well worth the time to listen to them.

A lot of good information here.

017A Homing in on the Defensive Shotgun
017A Homing in on the Defensive Shotgun The ProArms Podcast

017B Homing in on the Defensive Shotgun
017B Homing in on the Defensive Shotgun The ProArms Podcast
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
If cost is no object and you want a semi-auto shotgun, here is one sweet shotgun that will make your friends and family drool.

Rivendell Remington Sporting 20 Shotgun

It is the Remington 1100 Sporting 20 - It starts out as a semi-auto Remington 1100 20 gauge that has been customized for personal defense. However, if you have the misfortune of having to face a jury of your peers, it looks just like grandpa's hunting shotgun and not like an EBR (Evil Black Rifle).

Here is an excellent podcast about this gun.
057 It's a ProArms BroadCast! With Kathy Jackson and Jennie Van Tuyl The ProArms Podcast
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Popular Pump Shotguns:
All of these may be had with 18", or 18.5" barrels which can be swapped for longer barrels for hunting/Trap/Skeet.

Mossberg 500 Series
Remington 870 Series
Maverick 88 (Same as the Mossberg/Interchangeable barrels, but about $200, with a cross-bar safety like the 870s)
H&R Pardner Protector (Rem 870 Clone under $200 Interchangeable barrels with Rem)
Winchester 1300 Defender (Not as many Mods as Moss & Rem, but can readily accept 1.75" - 2.5" Aguila or Centurion mini-shells w/o modification)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Are you sensitive to recoil?
A pump action 12 gauge is gonna have some thump to it. but will be your cheaper option. The 20 gauge will have less kick.
The semi will cost you more, but the recoil is softer and they are easier to operate under stress..
Pump guns are considered more reliable, but you run the risk of getting excited and short stroking the gun.

FWIW, I prefer the location of the maverick cross bolt safety over the remington 870. The maverick is in front of the trigger, the 870 is behind. with the maverick, index on the side of the firearm, your safety is just below your finger, so you can go from index, to safety, to trigger. the 870, you have to move your finger behind the trigger to operate the safety, then move back to the trigger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
RayMich - holy crap, thanks that is awesome data!

Frontier - not sensitive to recoil - 6'4" - 195lbs , wife would be and never considered the 20 gauge

I guess I need to consider semi auto or pump - thoughts on semi vs pump for overall reliability / maintainence etc. - I will throw out that I think the wife would be better with a semi auto...

Thanks - this is great stuff by all

jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If you decide on a 12ga pump...look at a FN TPS (a real one, not the parts models being sold for far less). You can still get them new old stock here and there for around $650...

It's one heck of a nice shotgun and built like a tank. It also comes out of the box heavily modded, other than a different grip and rear stock, there's little you'll need to do to it. I love mine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
pump will cycle anything, everytime.
semiautomatics may not cycle light loads.
Pump will contain most of the powder residue to the barrel.
Semiautomatics will get more residue in the action, piston, and other moving components.
Pump can be short cycled and jammed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
both have advantages and disadvantages.
If you practice with the pump gun and cycle it like you mean it, you wont have a problem with short cycling.
If you get a semiautomatic that will cycle light loads or is adjustable for light loads and clean and lube regularly, then you wont have a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
if its not going to get bathed in mud rem1100 knox recoil stock IMO is the most cost effective way to go. I've seen one go 3k rounds+ over 7 years without being cleaned and never jammed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
pump will cycle anything, everytime.
semiautomatics may not cycle light loads.
Pump will contain most of the powder residue to the barrel.
Semiautomatics will get more residue in the action, piston, and other moving components.
Pump can be short cycled and jammed.
Pumps will not always cycle everything, every time. I had to work on my 870Z for it to properly feed light trap shells, though it fed buck and slugs fine. On the other hand, my Benelli M1S90 has fed everything, including mixed mags, with never a bobble.

The inertia-driven actions also contain almost everything in the barrel, and get very, very little residue in the action.

And it is very, very easy to short-stroke a pump under stress; I've done it, and I've fired a LOT of pump guns.

megerj--the question is, how much do you want to spend? If you want to spend a couple hundred bucks--get a pump; Mossberg 500/590, Remington 870, Winchester 1300, Benelli (Super)Nova; all are on par with each other as far as out of the box reliability goes, and all you really need to decide is which one you think works better for you, or which one you prefer the looks of.

If you are looking at spending a bit more...used Benelli M1S90's can be had for around $600 (NIB M2's are closer to $1k); the inertia-drive action is as reliable of a system as you will ever find (unless you want to hang tacticrap junk off the receiver; then, you may find they have issues) and is far superior to the Remington 11-series (I used to have one), is easy to work under stress, and is one of the softest-shooting 12 gauges I've ever shouldered.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I said cycle, not feed.
Yes, pumps risk operator error.
I have heard of more light load problems out of auto than pumps. Pumps will even cycle on those goofy 2" (assuming the gun doesn't drop the round).


cuda, what did you have to do to your 870 for light loads? what was the gun doing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I said cycle, not feed.
Yes, pumps risk operator error.
I have heard of more light load problems out of auto than pumps. Pumps will even cycle on those goofy 2" (assuming the gun doesn't drop the round).

cuda, what did you have to do to your 870 for light loads? what was the gun doing?
If you cycled the action slowly, they would cycle/feed fine; rapidly, they would hang up.

I ended up polishing the chamber, and the problem went away.

And the only 2.75" pump I've heard of that properly cycles 2" mini shells was the Winchester 1300; on anything else (Mos500, 870), they would not feed properly.

Like I said, my inertia drive Benelli works great with anything; the ARGO system on the M4's has been pretty darn bombproof for my buddy as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Rem 870 will have the most mods available. Excellent gun. Sister in law has an 870 express. She's 5'8 130 lbs and she has no problem with it.

Mossberg 500 has quite a few options and is cheaper than the 870 but just as reliable. You can even buy this one with 2 barrels. The 18.5 and regular sized barrel. Not sure what size that is. My dad bought this one to shoot clays with us and to have it by his bed side at night. I also have a 500.

Another gun way under the radar is the Stoeger P350. It's basically a Benelli Nova or Supernova. Very very little recoil. Not for a small framed person. I've been told that Benelli barrels interchange as do most of the components. Stoeger is owned by the same company that owns Benelli and from what I've researched they are just assembled in Brazil or some place cheaper. It comes with a bunch of gear too. I think like 4 or 5 chokes and it's only 299. My brother picked this one up.

I suggest going out and holding a few different models and go from there.

T.C.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
SG

Really depends on 2 things.. price and location. For here in Ca. a good cheap SG for your listed intentions would be the Hawk 982 an 870 clone for $199. If money isn't an issue mossberg, rem 870, Winchester are good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Another gun way under the radar is the Stoeger P350. It's basically a Benelli Nova or Supernova. Very very little recoil. Not for a small framed person. I've been told that Benelli barrels interchange as do most of the components. Stoeger is owned by the same company that owns Benelli and from what I've researched they are just assembled in Brazil or some place cheaper. It comes with a bunch of gear too. I think like 4 or 5 chokes and it's only 299.
Got a 5 choke package with 2 barrels and 2 stocks for about $480. Nice and light, easy action, fast dis and reassembly, but the 870 and 500 are a far better choice for aftermarket items and from what I found out too late reliability too.

It is made in Turkey and in no way is it the quality of a Benelli Nova or Supernova. It's like comparing a Geo to a Cadillac. Same parent company - huge quality difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
... Mossberg 500 has quite a few options and is cheaper than the 870 but just as reliable. You can even buy this one with 2 barrels. The 18.5 and regular sized barrel. Not sure what size that is ...
it is 28 inch. Offer has expired but this was a great deal at $259 that I learned about at this thread here on XD. For OP, maybe Big5 will run that deal again. If they do I would highly recommend for what you are seeking. I had my new 500 with the long barrel out trap shooting yesterday morning - fun fun fun turning some clays back into the dust they were molded from :)
 
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