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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am looking for a home defense shotgun and weighing the options, I seem to be stuck on if I want a pump or a semi auto. Common sense is telling me the pump is the more reliable one, fewer mechanics involved, but I can't find any references to prove out the thought. So why not have a thread on reliablity for pump vs semi auto shotguns.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
A pump is more reliable, and won't eat through your tube as fast. It makes a lovely sound when pumped that usually causes an intruder to become and incontinent and flee, not necessarily in that order. You can use reduced recoil rounds in a pump, it jams a semi-auto, because there isn't enough powder to move the bolt back to load the next shell.

About the only semi-auto that has fascinated me is the Saiga, and it needs a lot of conversion, tuning, and upgrading to be worthwhile that will put you at about a 1200 mark as opposed to a 3-400 pump action.

I own two pumps, a double barrel, and a single shot shotguns. My preference is for the pumps. If I had a lot of expendible income I would look at a Saiga. If not, Mossberg makes good reliable, cheap pumps that will work fine for what you want to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I had a Winchester 1200 waaaaaay back in the day. Then I got the auto itch and got a HK Benelli (when HK still carried them) M1S90 in the mid 90s and got into the SAIGA in the late 90s when they went for less than $300.00 a copy. The Benelli was great, but shot loose after about 30,000 rounds. Too loose for my liking so I got rid of it. I found if you left the SAIGA mags loaded for extended periods the shells will warp and bend. They will not feed well bent.

Now I am back to pumps and the autos are fun for games and hunting, but the house shotgun is a pump. It will eat anything and the rounds never warp in the mag tube.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
no one pisses themselves over a shotgun being racked.

ok, that said.
pump will run and is probably more reliable IF YOU PRACTICE with it
pump will run if you dont clean it and let it sit under your bed and get covered in dust
the semi auto will never short stroke on in a panic when you find an ammo it runs reliably on.

you need to be familiar with what ever you run with. a pump requires more user interface and gives you more chance to screw up. the pump will feel like it recoils harder. the pump will break you out of your tunnel vision when you actively have to cycle the action.

btw, racking a shotgun will tell the methhead where you are and that he now has access to a shotgun to sell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
no one pisses themselves over a shotgun being racked.

ok, that said.
pump will run and is probably more reliable IF YOU PRACTICE with it
pump will run if you dont clean it and let it sit under your bed and get covered in dust
the semi auto will never short stroke on in a panic when you find an ammo it runs reliably on.

you need to be familiar with what ever you run with. a pump requires more user interface and gives you more chance to screw up. the pump will feel like it recoils harder. the pump will break you out of your tunnel vision when you actively have to cycle the action.

btw, racking a shotgun will tell the methhead where you are and that he now has access to a shotgun to sell.
I take it you never made a meat head piss themself by racking a shotgun then?

About 20 years ago two meatheads rode their bikes to my neighbors car. They were going to use the dark of night to hide the fact they wanted to break into their car. The meatheads made enough noise to wake me up. First reaction was to grab the pistol. I put it back and went to the safe and wisely got the shotgun. Being it was middle of summer and the window was open they heard me rack a round into the chamber. All I heard was OH SH**!! DONT SHOOT US!!!!!!!! They left so fast they forgot their bikes they probably stole. They never stayed long enough to leave a puddle of piss, but from the reaction I got, I bet atleast a little squirted out........
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There was a riot in the prison where I used to work. The CERT officers crowded around the door and told the prisoners to cell up. The prisoners refused. The officers opened the bean slot, stuck a Mossberg 500 in it, and racked a round. The officers who were present said that every inmate ran to their cells at the sound of the round being racked.

A Mossberg 500 sits in my closet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
this argument gets way to much tech talk in my opinion.

yes a pump is more reliable than an auto.

a revolver is also more reliable than a semi auto pistol.

but most of us don't rock out a revolver now do we?

the reason being is because both systems are extremely reliable now days.

I would not hesitate to get an autoloader for self defense

autoloaders generally have less felt recoil, making follow up shots get on target fast, theres less to go wrong in a high stress situation, that shells going in there and just keep pulling that trigger.


another myth I wish would die is this whole racking the gun will scare people.

yeah, your right, its going to scare someone, someone that doesnt have a weapon or is just as likely to run if you say dont come in I have a weapon, its also going to give away your position to anyone else that doesnt care if you have a weapon and is intent on harming you, I'd rather not let them know im coming or where I'm at until I choose for them to know.


its personal preference.

If I had to put thousands of rounds in a short interval threw a shotgun I'd buy a pump, its not going to break as frequently or be as much of an issue to repair.



as a duck hunter I cant tell you how many times I've had failures to cycle another round vs failures to feed shells in a pump, but what I can tell you is that neither one has caused me more issues than another, and even with many years behind shooting a pump I still cant cycle it as fast as my autoloader can, especially not if I just got jarred out of my sleep, and I get a heck of a lot more ducks shooting my autoloader for the plain and simple fact that when they come threw in groups I'm alot more likely to get the ones I would have had fly past me.

(believe me im no speed slouch) but we all know, sometimes, split seconds count.

you can pick up some nice brand new autoloaders for 450ish-750ish used will vary, alot of decent deals on slightly used shotguns or overstocks around this time of year tho.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
There was a riot in the prison where I used to work. The CERT officers crowded around the door and told the prisoners to cell up. The prisoners refused. The officers opened the bean slot, stuck a Mossberg 500 in it, and racked a round. The officers who were present said that every inmate ran to their cells at the sound of the round being racked.

A Mossberg 500 sits in my closet.
im pretty sure if there was a shotgun in my face I would have run anyways.

dont get me wrong tho, a mossy 500 or a remmy 870 are both excellent long term shotguns to own!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
some low power rounds might not cycle through semi auto shotguns from what i hear. low power rounds can help with less penetration.
This exactly, I had problems with FTE with my Rem 1100, so I now have a Mossy 590A1, with 7 and 1, If they get through that more power to them. Then they have to contend with the pistol and me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
My self defense round is a slug + BB combo so im pretty much boned on the whole over penetration thing, but absolutely "SOME" autoloaders struggle with low power rounds, not all do tho.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If I had a pump shotgun, whether the racking would "scare" anyone doesn't matter. If I deem it a good shoot, the first and last sound they will hear is the report.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
If I had a pump shotgun, whether the racking would "scare" anyone doesn't matter. If I deem it a good shoot, the first and last sound they will hear is the report.
not having a round already racked is dumb, your losing capacity, time and giving up position to do it any other way.

yet another hole in the whole scary noise theory haha.

fully agree, and they'll be lucky if they're alive to even hear the report haha
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
its also going to give away your position to anyone else that doesnt care if you have a weapon and is intent on harming you, I'd rather not let them know im coming or where I'm at until I choose for them to know.
Now what I want to hear is from those out there that have had people run, walk or even crawl towards the sound of a shotgun being racked.

Its like two ninjas arguing the pros and cons of ninja smoke. One says it will be the last thing someone sees before he vanishes. The other says it will give away his location.

Neither is 100% right. I can tell you right now two thugs did not run to the sound of mine. They were not thinking how much money for dope they could get from it either. I would have to counter with if you were homeless you would not have a house to be broken into so you would ever have to worry about it.

Give me some first or second hand true stories where a intruder ran to the sound of a shotgun being racked. I need a good laugh!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Now what I want to hear is from those out there that have had people run, walk or even crawl towards the sound of a shotgun being racked.

Its like two ninjas arguing the pros and cons of ninja smoke. One says it will be the last thing someone sees before he vanishes. The other says it will give away his location.

Neither is 100% right. I can tell you right now two thugs did not run to the sound of mine. They were not thinking how much money for dope they could get from it either. I would have to counter with if you were homeless you would not have a house to be broken into so you would ever have to worry about it.

Give me some first or second hand true stories where a intruder ran to the sound of a shotgun being racked. I need a good laugh!!
of course one is right and one is wrong.

If you want to give away your position your more than welcome to, use your voice.

if you want them to realize you have a shotgun, show it to them.

if you want to make the same noise as a pump does just manually cycle a round out of the tube. (just about identical)

friggin retarded if you actually believe its a good thing to make scary noise's to scare criminals...

there is absolutely no tactical advantage to giving away your position, sure you can gamble on them running, but thats not an advantage, thats a risky tactic, if they are going to run from the sound, believe me they will want to run when they see it in there face as even more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
not having a round already racked is dumb
With a shotgun, no it is not. I don't believe shotguns are drop safe, and as such, they are usually kept "cruiser ready," which means an empty chamber but a full magazine tube. If you have a drop safe shotgun, then absolutely, keep one in the chamber. My defensive handguns are always kept with one in the chamber. I could be wrong about the drop safe issue, but that's what I've read in the past.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
With a shotgun, no it is not. I don't believe shotguns are drop safe, and as such, they are usually kept "cruiser ready," which means an empty chamber but a full magazine tube. If you have a drop safe shotgun, then absolutely, keep one in the chamber. My defensive handguns are always kept with one in the chamber. I could be wrong about the drop safe issue, but that's what I've read in the past.
being drop safe is not an issue, we are not in combat, we are not using it for service, its most likely going to be sitting in your house in a stable position and then picked up into your hands at which point accidental discharge is your own fault....which it always is anyway, if you were asking me about general shotgun safety, transporting, in a car, walking, in a boat, out hunting, I'd answer you differently, but then why would you have one ready to go at that point anyway? except in a hunting situation I suppose, I do keep 1 chambered during hunting, I've also dropped my shotgun a dozen times (waterfowl hunting is wet and slipper ugh)

this is 1 you dont rely on just any one thing to be your safety when your dealing with firearms, treat them with the respect they deserve, watching your finger, watch your safety, and watch what direction your pointing in.

I have never heard of a shotgun being dropped and going off, not to say it hasnt happened but its not very common.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I like my mossberg 500 pump. I keep it with a loaded mag tube of buckshot, empty chamber, 5 slugs on the stock, and safety off, behind my bedroom door. If I have to use it, I will chamber a shell and then fire. I want a mossberg 930 semi-auto, I don't know how I will keep that one loaded though. I have not practiced with one or even fired one yet.
 
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