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Discussion Starter · #81 · (Edited)
LC Smith Build--Tapping the Tang Hole on Location-Part 2

Hey All
Continued from last post. See Picture #1. The first problem that becomes apparent is the lack of a center drill that will reach through that clearance hole for an 8-32 tap. The drill is going to want to walk one way or another slightly because there is no way the top tang surface is going to be perfectly level to the drill point. The frame is vised very lightly by the lock flats in aluminum blocks and a jack screw placed under the tang to prevent flexing in the upper tang. We must exercise patience and keep moving things slightly one way or another till the drill is as perfectly centered in the bottom tang clearance hole, and as closely on location at the upper tang as we can get it. See Picture #2. When everything is lined up as well as humanly possible the drill is powered up and very lightly tapped in place with the quill until it settles down on center. This starting of the drill cannot be hurried by any means. You will notice in Picture #3 the jackscrew was later moved down to the very end of the tang because flexing of the tang was still a problem. Picture #3, with the drilling finally complete we tap the hole 8-32 without making any further adjustments to the set up. We do not even sneeze. Picture #4--The final result. The hole is on center, the screw threads tapped in nice and tight, and the location appears to be okay. If there is such thing as a center drill that will fit through an 8-32 clearance hole long enough to reach the top tang, next time I will be buying one just to keep my blood pressure down. NC Ordnance sent an email that my new butt plate and grip cap were shipped out next day as promised. Whatever the quality of the parts when they get here, you certainly cannot find fault with this company about their customer service.
 

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Discussion Starter · #82 ·
LC Smith Build--The New Butt plate and Grip Cap Arrive

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As promised, the NC Ordnance parts arrived at home before I did yesterday evening, so I set to unpacking them. I received a twenty four page flyer covering the entire line of new urethane grips and butt plates the company offers. The quality of the butt plate and oval grip cap I received seems very nice indeed. I would not be afraid to order repro grips for handguns, repro butt plates and grip caps for shotguns and rifles from this same outfit. The feature I was most concerned with, i.e. the flatness of the surfaces of the two parts where they meet the wood, has been well taken care of. Fitting up to the stock should require the minimum effort accordingly. The only detail left to check is to count the serrations on the butt plate, and compare the number to those on an original LC Smith butt plate when I should encounter one. That is the most obvious giveaway when checking for a replaced composite butt plate. Here in Picture #1, and #2 are the new reproduction butt plate and grip cap, and in Picture #3 and #4, the same two parts placed roughly where they will end up on the stock blank. These, I think, should turn out pretty nice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #83 · (Edited)
LC Smith Build--Getting Out the Second Pillar Block-Part 1

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The final job before starting the stock work is at hand, making and fitting up the second stainless steel pillar block for the rear tang screw. There is the small matter of TIG welding the top lever radius where it meets the frame left to be done, with several thousandths of play apparent in this fit. Because it is a a separate part, and will involve no heat to the actual frame, this repair I will leave till such time as I am preparing to begin the fitting of the actual mono block.

In order to gain a long enough piece of stainless steel rod to get out this pillar block, one and one eighth inches, this time I began with a 1/2-13 stainless steel hex head cap screw 1 1/2 inches long. A #20 drill was selected to give a few thousandths clearance over the .156 diameter of the 8-32 screw, Picture #1. The cap screw was caught in the chuck by the head, and center drilled, Picture #2, and then drilled 1 1/4 deep with the #20 drill, Picture #3. This cut was followed by turning the outside diameter Picture #4, to the finished dimension of 3/8 diameter, Picture #5. Next to put in the grooves similar to the first pillar block, saw the block down to rough length, then face to 1 1/8 inches.
 

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Discussion Starter · #84 · (Edited)
LC Smith Build--Getting Out the Second Pillar Block-Part 2

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Starting again on the second pillar block where we left off yesterday morning, Picture #1, the modified cap screw is caught by the head once again in the small lathe and the live center is installed in the drilled hole. An angled grind on the front edge of a part off bar makes a simple form tool, and grooves similar to those found on a tubing hose barb are spaced along the outside diameter of the turned diameter. Once the outside diameter is profiled, Picture #2, the block is sawed off from the head of the bolt to slightly longer than finished dimension of 1 1/8 inches. The smaller diameter barbed block is then caught in the small three jaw chuck, Picture #3 and the sawed edge is faced to yield a finished length of 1 1/8 inches. A slight chamfer is given to the inside and outside edges. In Picture #4, the finished block in position at the rear of the tang with the 8 x 32 rear tang screw extending through and threaded in place.
 

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Discussion Starter · #85 · (Edited)
Hey All
Here is the materials list for the stock makers fixture as promised

Main Beam----------3/16 thick 6061 Al-------------1 1/4" Flat Bar-------------48" Long
Drop at Heel/LOP---1/4 thick 6061 Al---------------1 " Flat Bar----------------24" Long
Drop at Comb-------1/4 thick 6061 Al---------------1" Flat Bar-----------------12" Long
Clamp body----------1/8 thick 6061 Al--------------1 1/2x 1 1/2 Angle---------4" Long
Screws (attach)----- socket head cap screws-------4 x 40 (or other)-----------8 pcs
Screws (clamp)------socket head cap screws-------1/4 x 20 x 3/4 long--------2 pcs
Screws (draw)-------carriage bolt-------------------1/4 x 20 x 1 1/2 (front)----2 pcs
Screws (draw)-------carriage bolt-------------------1/4 x 20 x 2 1/2 (back)----2 pcs
Nuts------------------wing----------------------------1/4 x 20---------------------5 pcs
Washers--------------hardware-----------------------1/4 flat----------------------5 pcs
Tubing----------------vinyl----------------------------1/4 inside dimension-------1 foot

With this information you can cost one out from aluminum, as I used, or some other suitable material.
This morning we will set the fixture up on the old Hollenbeck, and take some accurate dimensions from this historical 10 gauge bird gun from 1894 or so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #86 · (Edited)
LC Smith Build--Testing the Fixture on the Syracuse Hollenbeck

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I mounted the fixture on the 10 gauge Hollenbeck double and took some preliminary measurements. This shotgun was stocked for the "average" shooter of about 1894 in the style of the times, but probably it comes as close to the LC Smith dimensions of 1927 as any shotgun I am going to have. The average man was shorter and lighter in 1894 than he is today, this we know from surviving military uniforms. The usual WWI soldier wore a size 36 tunic for example, the larger sizes being the rarity.

The Hollenbeck was stocked at the Syracuse Arms factory with a length of pull of 13 5/8 inches, a drop at comb of 1 3/4 inches, a drop at heel of 2 1/2 inches, a distance of 7 3/4 inches from the face of the standing breech to the start of the total comb height, and with a pitch of negative 6 1/2 degrees at the butt plate.

We can see the trend toward the modern average stock underway here. The early shotguns, the double flintlocks, were fired from a more head erect position. If you have fired one, as I have, the stream of gas from the left hand lock (right hand for a lefty) blasting across a few inches from the bridge of your nose, along with the accompanying fireworks from the opened powder pan, and you immediately begin to understand why. The percussion system settled things down quite a bit and the cheek weld started to come more into use. Still, more drop at comb and heel was the usual even into the early breechloader double barrel days. The Hollenbeck is stocked a little short, at about a half inch length of pull, and with a bit too much drop at comb. Some cheek weld is available, but a marginal amount. When properly mounted as a modern shotgun would be, at least for me, nothing is visible but the back of the frame. The pitch at the butt plate seems about right on.

Setting up the fixture for the LC stock, I will lengthen the pull to 14 inches, bring the drop at comb up to 1 1/2 inches and maintain the drop at heel, and the negative pitch at the butt plate of 6 1/2 degrees. As for the distance between the standing breech and the start of the comb, I will study up on pictures of similar FW's from the 20's and try to arrive at a distance and curve of the pistol grip that looks and fits correctly. I have plenty of scattergun examples to measure that fit me in these two regards. If I had to guess, I would say the grip of the Hollenbeck is slightly more open.
 

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Discussion Starter · #87 · (Edited)
LC Smith Build--Laying Out the Length of New Buttstock

Hey All
With wood so close to size the layout process is somewhat more involved than normal, but will still proceed initially the same. The length of pull can only be established for sure and certain once the bottom tang/ trigger plate is inlet in place with the front trigger installed. There are other inletting cuts that must be gotten in place correctly before that happens. The goal here is to get the wood cut down into the separate buttstock and fore end, and fitted to the back of the frame with just enough wood left at the butt to fit up the butt plate without taking more than just a flattening cut. The outside profile of the stock was traced around the Hollenbeck stock, using it as a guide, and trying to leave enough material inside the lines to clean up everywhere.

The first order of business was to compare the distance from the face of the standing breech to the front surface of the front trigger between the Hollenbeck and the LC. Because the Hollenbeck is a 10 gauge, big framed with very thick walled barrels at the breech, I fully expected it to have the longer distance of the two. This proved to not be the case, probably because the rotary bolt locking mechanism of the LC Smith requires a thicker recoil shield to provide room front to back for the bolt. At any rate, the distance measured on the Hollenbeck was approximately 1 7/8 inches, see Pictures #1, and #2. The LC Smith, in turn, measured at approximately 2 1/4 inches. The cut line "A" was subsequently drifted forward a full 3/8 inch to accommodate the difference. With the stock fixture mounted to the wooden try barrels, and the line "A" picked up with the standing breech surface, the butt end was marked "B" along the drop at heel bar to provide the 14 inch length of pull. There is not going to be as much opportunity to cut some seasoning checks out of the stock end as I had hoped. They will need repaired instead. I will apply some Brownell's Acraglas, properly stained, to these checks and see how invisible I can get them before making the cut for the butt plate. I will be removing quite a lot of material around the butt before the initial stock dimension is reached, and in my experience things in general will begin to look better the further you progress into the new wood.
 

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Discussion Starter · #88 · (Edited)
LC Smith Build--Last Pictures Before We Cut the Butt Stock to Length (Gulp)

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I rounded up the proper plastic tubing to go over the carriage bolts, cut it to length and pushed it onto the clamping bolts of the fixture. I got the correct tubing at Ace Hardware, a clear vinyl 1/4 inch ID that went on the bolts pretty tightly, read that perfectly, and will stay put. The is little chance of damaging a nice finish with the fixture now, I believe the aluminum will prove to be non/marking as well.

Home for the weekend, yesterday Mrs. 4575wcf and myself busied ourselves putting the siding on our "chicken Hilton". We will get our chicks in March or so and begin the process of turning our little place in the sun into a real small farm. I practiced up my first couple of years of animal husbandry with our cats, so far they have not died, and seem to be staying fat enough.

Picture #1--Here is the only change to the fixture required to go on the try barrels of the LC Smith. A new notch was marked and milled in on location to clear the front bead with the back clamp even with the face of the standing breech, see Picture #2. This should be the only modification required as the fixture goes from shotgun to shotgun. The 6 1/2 degree negative pitch still locked in place on the LOP bar from the Hollenbeck looks to give a bare cleanup to at the butt, we cannot afford to lose much material here or we will soon get too small for the 16 gauge butt plate, see Picture #3. Something a bit greater than 14 inches length of pull looks to be available at our best estimate of where the front trigger will actually wind up see Picture #4. Our new mark is scribed in place see Picture #5, where we will cut to give our preliminary frame to buttstock seating surface.

. . . continued next post
 

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Discussion Starter · #89 · (Edited)
LC Smith Build--Last Pictures Before We Cut the Butt Stock to Length part 2

Hey All
continued from last post. . .

Here is pictured the end checks that must be dealt with on this particular piece of walnut. I think the main cluster of checks at the top left of the surface pictured will mostly cut out, but I think there will be a residual line or two in this area that will not. The check to the right side will completely cut out as the stock is profiled, I believe. The worst offender is the deeper dead center check in the stock. That one will be there in any circumstance. I will mix up some acraglas, dye it a bit darker brown than required, because it lightens a bit in drying. A couple of wood wedges will be driven in the waste sides of the cracks to open them up slightly, a couple wraps of duct tape around the stock will stop the glass from running out of the cracks, and a suitable dam will be made around the cracks to give room for a bit of "filler" at top. If I am able to pull all this off, the cracks should appear much like natural grain in the wood. Wonderful stuff this acraglas, but if you have not used it you do not really appreciate "runny".

Picture #2--The deed is done. I sawed the buttstock loose at 1/8 inch longer than the predicted line. The fore end wood we stick in the LC box for another day. Monday morning we will set the cut edge up in the mill with a long enough end mill to bridge the end. With a little trial and error we should be able to get a smooth straight and correctly sloped surface to begin fitting up to the frame. Climb milling (contact teeth spinning away from the cut) limits splintering, but easy very much does it. The saw used was an old Superior with a barn red painted handle, 6 tooth per inch. Superior was a hardware brand that bought up seconds from Disston and others and marketed them. I have a dozen or so such old handsaws, and files and sets, although I have not yet made up my filing fixture. This one is still sharp enough in the original to give a good finish.
 

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Discussion Starter · #90 · (Edited)
LC Smith Build--Squaring the Saw Cut to Match the Frame

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Monday morning I got the buttstock set up on the milling machine and made the first cut. This is still very much an eyeballing proposition at this point i.e. holding the stock in location to the marks on the fixture and adjusting the angle closer to the ideal. When the top tang is fully inlet with wood 1/16 proud all around and the stock end is flat to the frame, all the while still holding the position on the marks, we will be ready for the next step.

Holding the stock in place to the fixture, I estimated the angle to be out about .03 of an inch in the vertical at the bottom of the stock end. Of course the hand sawed cut will also be out slightly in the horizontal, which will clean up simultaneously. We very recently tore this milling machine down, and made a new worm and worm shaft for the head pivot, replaced the bottom motor bearing etc. so the head has been very recently and accurately trammed in true to the vise. By bringing the stock end up very close to the end mill a .030 thousandths approximate space is eyeballed at the top of the end cut, see Picture #1.

Powering up the spindle, the end is slab milled, climb milling .010 at a pass. With the helix of the end mill spinning in a CW direction the stock is fed from back to front with the end mill wanting to "climb" the cut, but prevented from doing so by the mill table. This keeps the tool pressure pushing into the wood, minimizing splintering and tear out, especially at the start and stop edges, see Picture #2.

Pictures #3 and #4--The cut has continued until the entire surface at the cut end of the stock is cleaned up, and absolutely flat. The lay of the grain is perfectly exposed at this point. The growth rings are reasonably straight up and down with a slight curvature present, but nothing alarming is showing so far.

Picture #5--The chip produced is a fine curl, peeling off of the sharp endmill and dropping staight down. Spindle speed is kept moderate and tear out is very minimal on the back edge, with no chatter present. Milling wood presents its own separate challenges.
 

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Discussion Starter · #91 ·
LC Smith Build--The Second Cut on the Buttstock

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I laid out and took the second milling cut on the butt stock yesterday morning, removing wood from an obviously oversized place on the stock without taking any big risks at this point. I marked out the material to be removed under the top tang Picture #1, milled some of it off Picture #2, adjusted the stock in the vise a little, and milled the rest of it Picture #3. Then we scribed the usual line center of blank Pictures #4 and #5. This morning I will need to finish dressing the repaired end of the tang to final shape prior to beginning the inlet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #92 · (Edited)
LC Smith Build--Some Judicious Filing and Finishing on the Top Tang

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With the tapped hole repaired in the top tang and most of the built up TIG weld removed it was a pretty straightforward small job to finish out this surface. Every effort was made to hold the exact thickness of the web between the tapped hole and the radiused end of the tang. The LC Smith top tang on the feather weight receiver 12 gauge measures at about 15/32 inch at the point where the thinner part begins just behind the hole for front tang screw, and tapers to about 13/32 radius diameter at the tang end. One thing that becomes obvious working on this shotgun, is that every dimension seems to be held to the nearest standard inch measurement. This is the way I wind up building most standard duplicate parts that come into the machine shop destroyed beyond accurate measurement, so it is a familiar process. 15/32 inch (.468) at start and tapered to 13/32 (.406) in this example. Assuming the .406 diameter at the rear of the tang, and subtracting the #8-32 minor diameter of #29 drill (.136) leaves .270 material, half of which is .135. This is the measurement held as closely as possible all around the hole at the tang end to get the hole on center and looking symmetrical as possible. Picture #1--top of tang, and Picture #2, bottom of tang. Picture #3 shows the slight draft filed into the end to aid in getting a good inlet fit at the tang end and picture #4 shows the finished end. A very light judicious shoe shine sanding on the radiused end with four progressively finer grits of emery strip finishes the surface and blends out any flats left by the filing, while at the same time softening the edges without really giving them any unsightly rounded off appearance. I assiduously avoid the buffing wheel in my gunsmith work, there is no real substitute for hand finishing of wood and metal. The process begins to go pretty quickly, becoming progressively less time consuming the more you do it. More guns, more experience, that is the ticket!
 

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Discussion Starter · #93 · (Edited)
LC Smith Build--Initial Cut for Top Tang Inlet

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Three separate radius corners now come into play all at the same time in order to inlet the top tang into the new wood. They are the radius in the frame forging where the tang and frame come together on the bottom side, and mirror image radii on either side of the tang where it meets the frame. See Pictures #'s 1, 2 and 3. I calculated that I am still a bit high up with the wood at the very front of the stock, so I milled a notch .700 wide, 1 3/4 inch long, and 3/8 deep into the stock, and feathered this cut out the back of the wrist at 3/8 wide, see picture #4. I will soot up the tang bottom at this point and begin to sink it in place until the narrow back tang is resting on the wrist surface of the wood. At that point I will trace around the whole tang and continue to sink the works. I will need to keep an eye on that mark for the drop at heel though, adjusting the slope of the tang inlet and possibly the angle where the frame joins as things progress, so I am still precisely on the mark there when the tang arrives on location, with wood 1/16 proud all around. These things could be largely ignored with properly sized wood that would clean up all around, but the extra care with the initial inlet is no real bother so long as I stay on my toes about it. Picture #5 is the tracing around the front end of the tang showing the wood to be removed to accommodate the radii at left and right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #94 · (Edited)
LC Smith Build--Beginnings of the Top Tang Inletting

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Here in picture #1 is my newest secret weapon. I was years discovering this trick, it is one of those things you wonder why you never thought of yourself. I have been fooling around with guns for nearly 45 years now, and since my earliest fumbling self taught days learning to inlet I have been using a sorry candle flame to soot my parts. This is a slow, cumbersome, and incomplete way to get there, take it from me. Some months ago I watched one of Larry Potterfield's several u-tube shotgun videos online with English gunsmith Jack Rowe. Jack was using a shaped stick and a can of some liquid to do his sooting. It finally dawned on me that the liquid could only be kerosene, and my sooting of parts was transformed forever.

The bottle is an empty power steering fluid container that I had lying about. It caps tightly, is relatively spill proof, and rides in the LC Smith box. It does give the contents of the box the slight unmistakable aroma of coal oil, which either you don't mind or you hate. Personally I do not find it objectionable. The section of half inch dowel is a sliding fit in the bottle, see Picture #2. The sooting up of the parts becomes a matter of a couple seconds work to get a very complete job, keeping the contacting surfaces well coated to mark the high spots in the inlet. You dunk the dowel, fire her up with a match, and in the few seconds it takes to soot the part, see Picture #3, the fuel does the burning producing the soot and the stick doesn't burn much. You blow the stick out good between sootings, you keep the bottle capped, and you don't slop the kerosene around the work area obviously. In Picture #4, we have sooted the tang up and rapped it gently in place with a rubber mallet, and the first few contact areas are blacked. Picture #5, after a half hour or so of rather quiet and pleasant file and light chisel work, we have a good outlined start on an inletting area that will show on the finished gun and needs to fit well. I will never be included in the annals of the really great inlet gunsmiths, but I can now do work that suits me, and I am a pretty picky guy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #95 · (Edited)
LC Smith Build--Top Tang Inlet First Stage Nearly There

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Another half hour to forty five minutes time inletting yesterday morning, and the rear tang is sunk down to about one-eighth inch short of touching the wrist, see Picture #1. Once it begins to bear, we can trace around the full length, return the stock to the milling machine, and rough in the remaining inlet slot full depth with a 3/8 end mill. The milling machine really comes into its own here, giving absolutely flat bottomed starting cuts to nearly finished depth, a process that is not so easy to arrive at by hand. This works because the stock blank is fairly square and flat, whereas with semi inlet wood there is never a flat or parallel surface to vise on, and always the opportunity exists to crush, move, or damage the wood in the vise. In hand inletting, the semi finished butt stock gives the basic finished profile and saves time, but to machine inlet, it is always better to start with the basic flat wood blank. In Picture #2, the metal is now nearly contacting the bottom of the initial cut.
 

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Discussion Starter · #96 ·
LC Smith--Tang Inlet Ready to Return to the Milling Machine

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Another half hour to 45 minutes continued marking and sinking the tang, and we have the rear end of the tang bearing on the wrist wood, and can mark it all around with a very sharp pencil, see Picture #1 and #2. Next up this morning we will set up a new sharp 3/8 endmill and mill a full depth slot ever so slightly narrower and shorter than the tang. Every effort will be made to just touch the pencil line at the end of the tang radius and no more. Depth of cut will be held to the thickness of the tang plus 1/16, and a few judicious shifts of the stock in the vise, and blending cuts will be necessary to get an accurate depth all along the curvature of the wrist. Once this cut is in place, we can soot up the tang and set it down until we touch bottom all along the entire inlet surface. When the tang is bottomed with wood 1/16 proud all around, we will put the stock fixture back on, and see how well we are staying with the drop at heel mark so far.
 

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Discussion Starter · #97 ·
LC Smith Build--Tang Inlet Milling Complete, Enter the Scrapers

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Wednesday morning I set stock up in the milling machine and ran the notch for the rear tang inlet full depth plus one sixteenth. See Pictures #1 and #2. We are easily set in within 1/64 of wood all around the recess, see Pictures #3 and #4, and it is time to put the chisels away and graduate to the scrapers. This morning I will round up my scrapers from my workbench here at home, and stick them in the LC box. A few hours of sooting and scraping only where the metal bears to avoid any large unsightly gaps remains to be done to finish the top tang inlet. Unless of course our drop at heel is out, then we may need to "rock" the fit a few degrees one way or the other, but not much additional wood should need to come out at any rate. Next up, a bit of metal work to get the front trigger blank in place in the trigger plate prior to inletting the bottom tang metal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #98 ·
LC Smith Build--Top Tang Inlet Bottomed, Setting Back for Full Contact

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I skipped a post or two, there was nothing new to post just a couple of mornings spotting in the tang to full contact in the bottom of the inlet. When the bottom of the metal did come into full contact, I checked the drop at heel with the fixture and it looks like we hit it pretty much right on. Only one issue remains to address, Picture #1, the metal is short about one sixteenth from full contact with the wood when tapped all the way back in the inlet channel. This was the correct way to err, all surfaces of the tang are tapered and give an opportunity to improve the fit as we sink the tang back into its recess. I went back to the mill with the stock, picked up the radius at the tang's end with a 3/8 endmill, and plunge cut an additional one sixteenth of wood out Picture #2. Likewise, Picture #3, .04 or so I plunged cut with a 1/2 inch endmill at the radiused junctures just ahead of the safety slot. Now it is just a matter of spotting the tang straight back into the wood until these new surfaces bear without gaps, see Picture #4, an #5, and the frame is contacting the wood fully and evenly on both sides.
 

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Discussion Starter · #99 ·
LC Smith Build--Top Tang Inlet is a Wrap, Let's Talk Triggers

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The top tang is seated into the walnut blank to my satisfaction, see Pictures # 1, 2, and 3. The stock alignment for drop at heel is very close, and the length of pull is about right, at least as near as can be predicted at this time. The wood is contacting the back of the frame fully and evenly, Picture #4, with the blacked flat areas of this surface all showing evidence of solid contact. Picture #5 shows the top wood to be removed above the tang to give our desired 1/16 inch of stock wood proud of the tang all around. This morning, we are adding our rather large selection of triggers and trigger plates to the LC box. None of these triggers and assemblies are LC Smith, however; there are a few that have an outside profile that might clean up. The hole for the hinge pin is roughly in the right place, the trigger height is about right, and the blade thickness right for the LC Smith plate. In the interest of using up parts on hand, we will see if we can come up with something that will work and look right, or can be fairly easily modified to do so. An aspiring double gun guy such as myself cannot have too many triggers!
 

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Discussion Starter · #100 · (Edited)
LC Smith Build--Double Triggers

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The LC Smith was in production for a good long while. There is quite a lot of subtle variation in the trigger plates from different vintages. Whether the triggers themselves vary all that much I do not know. The hammer gun triggers, sans safety, differ obviously in the lack of a provision to accept the hinged safety bar. It is not difficult to find correct and complete double trigger assemblies for the 1920's vintage FW, but they can be a bit pricey. I started with a bare trigger plate for my project though, because I wished to fit it. Picture #1 is a pair of triggers advertised online a while ago. I believe these are for the three position safety, the notch in back of the triggers providing relief for the safety bar in order to deactivate the safety when pushed to the third back position, where it is non automatic, and non functioning for trap shooting. I will be fitting the standard automatic two position safety option, since my LC will be a hunting gun, and only two positions is a much better idea for memory challenged characters such as myself. These triggers are of the correct shape and profile though, other than the notch in back. Picture #2 shows by assortment to choose from. Picture #3 shows a trigger group from an unknown (so far) shotgun under the LC trigger plate. I have three or so of these, they are close in size and shape to the LC, but I think a tad short in height between hinge pin hole and the blade. Picture #4 shows a loose pair of triggers from my assortment, these might be made to work, but the blades may not be quite long enough to reach forward to the hinge pin and still extend far enough back to catch the safety block. Picture #5 is the same triggers transposed on the LC plate. Also they would move the position of the front trigger forward almost 1/2 inch. This morning we will dig further into the trigger box and see what else we can find.
 

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