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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
Making the LC Smith rotary bolt--milling the trip detent notch-part 3

Hey all
Here in picture #1 is the old and new bolts with the trip notch cut completed.

Picture #2 is the original bolt viewed from the bottom with the original trip placed as it lies when it is pushed into the notch by the trip spring. Note the small amount of clearance around the trip, shown bottomed in the notch. This is a result of wear caused by the opening of the action, who knows how many times during its service life. Curiously, the bolt notch did all the wearing, the trip itself showing almost none. The result of this wear would be for the bolt to lock up on the trip in a less than fully rotated position. This in turn would cause an ever increasing misalignment of the slot where the rib extension drops through. This would cause a bit of rubbing where the rib extension and bolt contacted, and indeed the original bolt shows a mild wear pattern confirming this. The original barrels with the rib extension integral are long gone, but the side of the rib extension would have been scuffed as well.

Picture #3 it appears our 15 degree angle was the correct one, for the fit is considerably better between the original trip and our new notch. Indeed this trip could be used as is with our new bolt. The trip is such a minor part to build though we will get one out, and remember this one was rusted in solid. The trip, and its seat are a bit pitted. Also it did not come out easily, requiring more than a few gentle whacks with a brass punch, so the surface finish has suffered some.

The trip and the bolt should have been made to the same hardness to wear equally. The trip was obviously the harder part, since the bolt did all the giving. Neither of these parts are intended to be removed during the service life of the shotgun since the carrier screw gets peened over to discourage disassembling them. Our parts will be made from the same stick of material, it being prehardened. Also note the difference in the back end of the notches, the original being tapered where the formed cutter made the straight and angled side in one pass, and ours being straight due to taking two cuts with the same cutter in different planes. Only the front 1/8 inch or so of the notch bears on the trip, so this effects nothing, but the original cut looks a bit better at least in my opinion.

. . . next up cutting the "tooth" without a rotary table--bring on the Vector Calculus!
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Prepping the Rotary Bolt to Cut the "Tooth" Part 1

Things are getting busy at the shop, the haying season is in full swing and the agriculture repairs are rolling in. There was not lots of available time to work on Rusti this week, but I did do some figuring in the mornings about how to machine the locking notch in the rotary bolt. I think that the best way to approach this rather complicated helical cut is to mark a series of chord measurements around the periphery of the bolt. These can be picked up with a pointer as the bolt is rotated around in the vise jaws by hand. A hard stop set to the back of the bolt will allow rotating it and maintaining its position. Vector calculus will provide the correct dimension to distance the cut away on each line as we index around, using the one milling machine we have that is equipped with a DRO (digital read out).

The first problem was to lay out a series of accurate scribed lines along the barrel of the bolt .032 apart. Attempts to do this by hand were less than satisfactory so I cooked up this method which worked very well. First we consulted the Machinery Handbook and used the provided table to find a chordal measurement that was a good fit. 68 equal spaces worked out about right on the .687 circumference. I attached a strip of electrical tape to the chuck marked off at the same 68 spaces on the larger diameter, improvised a pointer, and then scribed the bolt along a "straightedge" improvised by a piece of keystock placed in the toolholder and held tight to the bolt.

This method allowed very accurate graduations to be scribed along the length of the bolt. See picture 2

. . . Next up--Calculating the tool movement in the "x" axis to comply with rotation.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Hey all
This has been an interesting last three weeks. Our local sawmill has been down off and on with a series of large broken power transmission shafts; a few mornings the maintenance man has met me at the front door, sketches in hand. Suffice it to say the DRO equipped milling machine has been tied up, with the vice removed. We are about dug out now. Such is the life of a small town machinist. Other things are in the works here at home, my wife and I have found an antique house to be moved. Our existing antique house has been treated pretty roughly over the last century, and this one is very similar in size, style, and vintage, but in much better shape. Everything is in order, we are only waiting for the movers to give the go ahead, yes or no, then it gets BUSY. Saving a nice old house from the wrecking ball has been on our bucket list for some years, so this is exciting. We will keep Rusti moving along too in spite of all though. I have completed the math and drawing for the angled milling cut in the rotary bolt to my satisfaction with the numbers all worked out. I will be making this cut as soon as the vice goes back on the mill table and we get enough of a lull in the action. Thanks all for your patience.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
LC Smith Project cutting the "tooth on the rotary bolt" part 1

Hey all
Things came together this morning at work and I completed the angled cut on the rotary bolt. It was a pretty involved cut to make in an hour start to finish, I got it out okay, but the photographic record suffered. I will repeat the set up tomorrow morning and get some better pictures.

To begin, here in picture #1 is my completed math. Measuring the slot at the beginning of the tooth and at the end of the tooth gave us the change in "x" along the angle or .0625. Measuring the length of the cut around the curvature of the circumference of the bolt gave us the change in "y" or .500. Right Angle Trigonometry gives us the angle, thus side a/side b =<tan or 7.125 degrees. We have 16 increments of .032 each marked out on the bolt. We will use line 0 thru line 14 measured to the center of the cutter, lines 15 and 16 would overcut into the part, so we must stop there and not use these last two. Cutter diameter is .125 so we must add half this diameter to move our end mill over to the right side of the cut. .020 is added to give us a finish allowance along the tooth surface for fitting later.

Therefore our equation states "For increments .03125 each increasing in y from increment 0 to 14 thus inc #/32 *( sin(7.125)) + .240 +.02 +.0625 equals distance in x" .24 is the actual tooth thickness + .02 is the finish allowance +.0625 is the cutter radius. The resulting x values in our table are the location for each cut plunged along the 1/32 divisions of our angle (vector).

Next we use an edge finder to locate our back vise jaw Picture #2, and enter positive .100 into the DRO in "y'" axis. Picture #3, Bring the edge finder up and move to zero, Picture #4, then move in -"y" to half the bolt diameter (.343) and zero the DRO out precisely in the center of the bolt in "y" axis

We have set a stop to the end of the "drop" so the bolt can be loosened and rotated in the jaws and still closely maintain its position in x

Next up. . .edge find the front of the bolt, turn the bolt and align the first index line (#0)to center, and move to the x location for the fist cut.
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
LC Smith Project cutting the "tooth on the rotary bolt" part 2

Hey all
I made it into work an hour early this morning and "re-enacted" the angled cut on the bolt to get some decent pictures.

The front edge of the bolt has been found and the center of the cutter located on that edge. We move to the first x value on our table at x -.322, bring the cutter down close to the scribed line, then rotate the bolt to center our first scribed increment. Then we carefully plunge the end mill down into the inside pocket. Back up with the end mill, move the mill table to our next value of .326. Loosen the vice, rotate the bolt to the next scribed line, clamp the bolt in the vise and carefully plunge down into the inside pocket. This process is repeated until scribed line #14 is plunged. Then our end mill is moved out to the outside edge of our slot, already calculated at x-.3917, and the process repeated in reverse rotation with no changes in x until we have cut our way back incrementally to the zero scribed line, point of beginning. Pictures #1 through #4---Move x, rotate bolt, plunge cut, Move x, rotate bolt, plunge cut. A pattern begins to develop and we see about a .004 change in x for each increment plunge begins to build our angle. Then out in to the other side of our notch, and cut the straight back edge of the notch in reverse.
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
LC Smith Project cutting the "tooth on the rotary bolt" part 3

Here is the notch finished as far as we will take it for now. Picture #1, Once the new monoblock is made and the barrel assembly is jointed to the receiver, the rib extension will be fitted to the new bolt and both the tooth and rib extension surfaces will be mated at that time. Best to not get too far ahead of myself and become overwhelmed, so for now we will concentrate only on getting the drop sawed off the bolt, pictures #2 and #3, then get the back solid side of the bolt faced in preparation to make the final two cuts.

Next up. . . face the bolt to length, set up the original bolt in the mill, and find the exact location for the .250 diameter pocket that accepts the coupler stem from the back.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
And now, a minute to tell on myself a bit

This post is specifically designed for the somewhat advanced gunsmithing student, like myself. I am gaining in LC knowledge all the while, but very much learning on the fly, thus I have passed a couple of inaccurate statements along. I am a stickler about this, the whole gunsmithing world is fraught with inaccuracies it seems, so to rectify:

1. Earlier in my posts I indicated the difficulty of getting the bolt seat machined in tight under the tang. In fact, the seat was cut first, requiring only an extended toolholder, and the tang was then bent down as observed in the engineering drawings available at the LC Smith Collectors site. This made cutting the seat accurately a WHOLE bunch easier, believe me, but at the same time most forgings are forged directly to shape. Whether bending the tang as a second operation, and then "freezing' it in position during case-coloring caused issues with the future "unbending" of the tang in time, I do not know. It is a question I will be running by the Practical Machinist forum.
I understand absolutely why they did it this way, I am just not sure if it cost them any integrity in the stiffness of the tang.

2. I missed the secondary notch on the rotary bolt. The tooth does slide through a hole in the rib extension as I indicated, but the back of the inside pocket behind the notch also slides over a flat on the end of the rib extension. This provides another locking surface, but a very small one. I missed this simply because I do not have the barrel assembly on hand and in front of me. These are the first retakes, no doubt more will be revealed as we move along
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
LC Smith Project--Face the Bolt to Length and Locate the Carrier Stem Holestem

Hey all
This morning first thing I set the bolt up in the small lathe and faced it down to finish length of .630. Picture #1. I then set up the original bolt in the mill vise, stood on parallels with the notch clamped against the movable jaw. Looking at the bolt in this view we would be seeing the bolt from the top down in the unlocked position as viewed from the back. Using the coaxial indicator the outside diameter of the bolt is swept in, and the DRO zeroed at part center. Picture #2 The 1/4 inch diameter counter bore in the back of the bolt is a clearance cut for the stem of the coupler, which extends into the angled stepped holes directly underneath it. Picture #3. The hole is "picked up" with a matching 1/4 " end mill, while the DRO tracks our movements. The hole is found to be at .0938 (3/32) from center in both x and y indicating a 45 degree angle from center in x and y positive. Picture #5. Good thing I checked this I had guessed the position at 30 degrees on the print--a ways off.

Next up. . a closer look at the back of the bolt, the straight clearance counter bore, and the angled stepped holes underneath it and some modified tooling to put these cuts in.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
LC Smith Project--Preparing to drill the back side of the bolt

Hey all
Spent this morning early at work putting locking system pieces together and taking pictures. I got about 3 posts worth. It is time to add a few parts and put a little life into this build, I almost went to sleep myself getting through the front end of that ornery rotary bolt. Okay here in picture #1 and #2 is another couple of pictures trying to get enough light down the coupler stem hole to show the two angled holes. Not having much luck, my camera equipment is far from the best. Picture #3 shows the angle that the coupler is engaged into the bolt when the top lever is centered. This is one of the tricks that makes the whole system work, the coupler is engaged all the way right, then swings over at a downward angle to the matching angle 90 degrees left. Corny, but the best way I know to describe this action is to hold your pencil in the dead center of your happy face, angle down, and draw the mouth right to left. That is probably the only way to transmit motion to a rotary bolt with a very tight radius by moving a top lever directly centered to hard right. That it works at all is incredible, how smoothly and well it works under the strong spring tension as it is under- -well that is kind of hard to grasp. In picture #4 the parts are stacked as they are assembled. The 1/8 diameter stud on the front of the coupler does all the turning of the bolt, fitting into a downward sloping hole in the back of the bolt with enough clearance to adapt to the constantly changing relationship between the two parts. They are--quite simply--operating on two completely different tracks. If I was the manager when Brown brought that Idea around I would have bet him lunch and $50 it would never work. Picture #5 shows the assembly together outside the shotgun, assembled with hardware mush bolts. The wonderfully standard LC accepts them readily, and they will do all the giving, leaving us nice threaded holes when we build the real gun screws and time them toward the very tail end of the build, of course only after we assemble and disassemble her a few more hundred times.
 

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Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
LC Smith Project--The Triggerplate with Top Lever Lower Bearing

Hey all
Picture #1 is the used and somewhat abused trigger plate that will be fitted to Rusti. I believe this plate to be from a regular frame LC circa approximately 1907. The trigger plates are not considered interchangeable between the two frame sizes. As you can see someone has drilled a small hole into the side. I wrote into the Practical Machinist Forum and got some input on how to properly repair this damage. Since the trigger plate will eventually be color casehardened to match the receiver, the correct fix is to drill the hole out to slightly larger size and give it a slight countersink. Then a mild steel plug is turned and seated into the hole somewhat proud of the surface. No TIG filler rod is needed, and the two parts are welded in place using that part of the plug extending above the hole as the necessary filler metal during the weld. The exiting outside profle fit between the receiver bottom cutout and this trigger plate is very good, Picture #2 ;however, about .02 will need to be removed from the mating top surface of the plate. This will close up the gap between the bottom top lever bearing hole and the top lever bearing stem, Picture #3, and bring the plate up flush with the receiver. The two tang screw holes line up perfectly, so I believe this slight difference in thickness is the only real difference in the trigger plates between the two frame sizes at this particular time in manufacture. Pictures #4, and #5. There are variations in the trigger plates depending on the year of LC manufacture, but these both were made with the single screw hole in the rear tang, and with the rear safely hinge lug behind the trigger block, I believe, and can be fitted up with all parts, and made to work just fine. I bought this plate in a parts lot on ebay, after examining many pictures online and familiarizing myself with what the missing trigger plate should look like. I got lucky with the fit, ie. what does not fit well can be made to do so. Once this plate is repaired and fitted up, and the back side of our new rotary bolt is finished, I can get the new rotary bolt fitted and functioning with the original coupler and top lever. When that is accomplished, I can then build the coupler new and get that part working. Some attempts were made to free the rusted components at some point before Rusti came to me, and the coupler yoke surfaces were somewhat battered. This part of the project is all about closely examining the parts as we go, and repairing/replacing and setting right every defective part.
 

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Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
LC Smith Project--Modified Tooling for Drilling the Carrier Stud Hole

Hey all
Here in picture #1 is the coupler stud hole drilled into the back of the rotary bolt. The picture is shot from the relative downward angle following the hole. The coupler stem Picture #2 is a stepped stud consisting of a small turned forward section .125 (1/8) diameter by .156 (5/64) long, followed by another section .1875 (3/16) by .250 (1/4) long. The back of the coupler is a yoke slotted through for the top lever and mounted with a pivot screw so the coupler is free to move up and down a bit as it is swung through its arc by the top lever. Picture #3 is the coupier stem stepped hole viewed from the slotted side of the rotary bolt. The hole is angled into the off side of the slot with something less than about half of the hole diameter exposed. Because the hole is started on an angled surface, I think it best to drill it with a center drill, the best tool for this kind of cut. The very top section of the hole can be plunged with a 1/8 end mill first if starting on the angled side becomes problematic. The correct angle will be determined by calculation. The drill must pass through a "ghost point" .375 (3/8) above the bolt on dead center (this represents the the hinge point of the carrier) and then drilled into the bolt at .1250 (1/8) off center through the .250 (1/4) carrier stud relief counter bore. A #4 center drill should give us the correct diameter and length of hole to clear the first turned section of the carrier stud, but behind that size the center drill will need to be cylindrically ground to .1875 (3/16) to put in the second .1875 (3/16) diameter.

Okay we are planned and laid out about as well as we can be for our next few cuts, so we can proceed with finishing the bolt. First we will plunge the clearance counter bore, then calculate the angle, and drill the hole into the back side of the bolt through it. Then we will have the trigger plate welded up and dress it out, and then fit the plate to the receiver to gain our bottom bearing point for the top lever. At this point, finally, we can assemble the original locking assembly and test the fit all around with our new rotary bolt, trouble shoot any issues, and get it working exactly like the original.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
LC Smith Project--Plunging the Rotary Bolt Carrier Clearance Counterbore

Hey all
Monday morning I arrived early at work, and got on the project. First I clamped the new bolt in the vise with the notch facing forward against the movable jaw, Picture #1, then coaxial indicated the bolt to center and zeroed the DRO. A bit of calculation was in order. You will remember that last time we found the clearance counter bore to be out .093 in x and y. Working backwards, we know the sin and cosine of any 45 degree angle to be always equal, and we know the sin and cosine of 45 to be .707. There are a hundred and one ways to approach anything mathematically, but this time we can use a percentage to find our vector. So .093 is 70.7% of what number? 1/8 inch works out to .088, very close to what we found earlier, and this dimension fits with our other measurements. Our counter bore vector has a value of 1/8 inch at 45 degrees in x and y positive. We move the mill table to reflect (.088,.088) in positive x an y and carefully plunge the cut 1/8 inch deep. Picture#3. This cut extends through the .0625 web at the back of our bolt behind the notch. Picture #4. In Picture #5 we see the new and old (right side) bolts, and the stepped holes under the counter bore are at last visible in the original part. So far so good.

Next up, some more angles and math and to drill the last two holes. Probably we will forgo the center drill modification, set the bolt up in the vise jaws 45 degrees out in rotation, and also on the sin bar at the appropriate angle. Then plunge the last two holes on location with a 1/8 end mill, and a 3/16 end mill, respectively, which tools we have. . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
LC Smith Project Preparing to Drill the Carrier Stud Holes in the Rotary Bolt

Hey All
Got on the project this AM per usual. Picture #1 is some Right Angle Trigonometry applied to finding the angle of the vector extending from the center of the carrier hinge out to the tip, and into the matching hole in the back of the rotary bolt. I arrived at 19.45 degrees. Picture #2 shows an approximate angle with the protractor of the direction the drill holes will take. Picture #3, more Trigonometry to find the correct length of block to place under one end of the sine bar to create a parallel that will hold the bolt in the milling machine vise tipped out at the correct 19.45 angle, Picture #4, milling the first side of our block, a scrap of 1 3/4 inch A36 Hot Rolled, then rotate it 180 degrees clockwise, and mill the second side, adjust and finish at 1.665, our calculated dimension.

continued next post. . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #34
LC Smith Project Preparing to Drill the Carrier Stud Holes in the Rotary Bolt part 2

Hey all

continued from last post. Picture #1 our sine bar in the vise with the 1.665 long block to give the angle 19.45 degrees to the rotary bolt, held left side against the sine bar fence. A pusher must be incorporated into the set up to clamp just the bolt, and not the sine bar before drilling commences, and a means to accurately index the bolt notch to 45 degrees must be thought up to give the correct compound angle. Picture #2 More Trigonometry to find the exact center of the bolt in this new tipped out position.

Next up--Let's drill 'em, but proceed carefully
 

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Discussion Starter #35 (Edited)
LC Smith Project--Drilling the Carrier Stud Holes in the Rotary Bolt cont.

Hey all
Friday morning I arrived at work early, the milling machine vise was on and ready to go. Things took a turn when I set up the sine bar to match my calculated angle. The angle was very obviously not steep enough. I got out our wire size drill index and began trying progressively larger shank diameters in the hole in the original bolt, starting with .125 (1/8). .140 (9/64 equiv) gave a very good fit Picture #1. As I mentioned before, there is a constantly changing relationship between the coupler stem and its matching seat as the rotary bolt is turned in the receiver, so this clearance of .0151 (1/64) between the stem and the seat allows for a bit of running room. Since the error in the angle was not steep enough, a new block had to be made to go under the sin bar Picture #2.. I made an educated guess and sized it to give an angle of 25 degrees, which I figured too steep. Then it was only a matter of milling the height block down a bit at a time. In picture #3 the angle is closely approaching 23 degrees, but as you can see we are still a bit out. I ran out of time and had to quit for the morning, but I am pretty sure now the angle will settle at 22 1/2 degrees, exactly half of a 45. That makes a bit of sense, the bolt being swung almost 90 degrees, making two 45 degree rotations, one on each side of center. Not where I figured it, but hey if it ain't broke don't fix it, and we do not want to reinvent the wheel. This bolt was in and working with the angle LC Smith built into it, so that is the precise angle we want to end up with.

Next up--correct the angle, check it again, and then on to the drilling.
 

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Discussion Starter #36 (Edited)
LC Smith Project--Corrected Angle for the Carrier Stem Hole

Hey All
I made a bit of progress this week. I clocked in a bit early Monday to get a local mint farmer's peppermint oil trying tank repaired, and clocked out a bit late Tuesday to help get the sawmill back up, again. I found time to correct the angle of the carrier stem holes, with only the drilling left to do. No one has asked me why exactly I am going to the trouble to build a new rotary bolt when I have a functioning one already. I found a couple pics online to post, and a picture is worth a thousand words.

Picture #1. This is an LC Smith with some miles on it. The fit between the trip and the cutout in the rotary bolt, I assume, is washed out a bit very similar to the one in my project. Look closely at the breech slot, that square member in the bottom is the trip. The rotary bolt is locked up on the trip as it should be, but the bolt is a held a bit out of rotation with the right side of the slot in the bolt extending out into the receiver slot. Some interference between the rib extension and the bolt will occur on closing.

Picture #2 This is another LC Smith that has an unworn trip, bolt assembly. The receiver slot is pretty much perfectly lined up, and the rib extension will drop through, push down the trip, and the bolt will engage, all without any rubbing or interference. This is the fit we want to see with the new bolt.

Picture #3 The angle for the drilled holes corrected to 22 1/2 degrees, right where LC Smith placed them.

Picture #4 The riser block, equal to the sin(22.5) times 5 or 1.913 inches, Picture #5 placed under the sine bar to give our angle, pictured outside the vise.

Next up, time willing, we can finally get the holes drilled in . . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #37
LC Smith Project--Repairing and Fitting the Triggerplate

Hey all
I finished the last cuts on the rotary bolt, it is as far along now as it can be until the final fitting and assembly. Next up is to get the trigger plate fitted to the receiver, providing the bottom bearing surface for the top lever. Here in Picture #1 is the top lever parts group assembled with the original bolt, and in Picture #2 the same group assembled with the new bolt. In Picture # 3 the repair on the trigger plate is about to get started. This original trigger plate is plenty hard, I would guess upwards of 55 Rockwell. I was able to barely drill it with the high speed steel center drill, but it would not finish well. I stopped and did a bit of spot annealing with the torch and tried drilling it again, but not much improved. I next loaded a 3/16 (.1875) carbide end mill and spotted the hole, removing all rusted material down to bare metal, Picture #4. A 1018 cold rolled steel pin was then turned to size, both surfaces degreased, and pressed into the hole Picture #5. The assembly then went to the TIG bench. This brings up a question I did not think to ask before. I have read a great deal about the case color hardening process, but I have never carried it out. What I have read has always involved treating new soft finished and polished parts. I wonder if the same process is applied directly to parts already casehardened, or if they need to be annealed first? This seems to be another valid question for the Practical Machinist Forum. A proper anneal would certainly make the fitting up of the plate much easier to carry out.

. . . . next up, dress the weld and fit up the plate to the receiver
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
Project--Weekend update

Hey All
Sunday AM and I am taking a break from all this strenuous LC Smith building activity:). I ordered some parts to go into the project, shipping during this Covid 19 epidemic can be pokey, so I thought I better get a jump on things.
First up, I am about ready for the top snap spring. I fully intend to build some v springs for various projects, but this is not a good one to start with. Even experienced spring guys voice difficulties getting this one out with enough tension to do the job. Also I am short a mainspring in my right hand lock. I opted to order new made ones from Numrich. They ran about $16 each plus tax and ship got them up around $21-22 per. In the interest of those who may come after me, I will evaluate these new made springs from Numrich. As the time arrives I will fit them, test them, and report back on them my opinions of them both good and bad. I do not know where the professional restorers of these guns get their springs, or if these Numrich ones are considered top notch. Personally, other than for my own use, I am not going to lay in some AISI 1095 spring steel, make a spring, finish and temper it for any $21 each and that is for certain.

I also bought a Lewis patent ejector for end metal. It is not for an LC Smith, of that I am sure to about 9 decimal places. All the various parts and pieces look to be intact though. This gives me an opportunity for a hands on look at the proper ejector system. Once I understand it I can set about working up a copy with correct dimensions to work with the LC Smith. When I have figured out exactly what it fits after I have copied it, I can always set it right later, list it for the correct shotgun, and resell it. I expect this ejector project to be the other part of the build that will rival the rotary bolt for sheer orneryness, perhaps even exceed it. Before I can tackle the monoblock, I have to know where I am going with the ejectors in order for everything to work together. For now though I need only concentrate on getting the top snap assembly properly sprung and working smoothy. Then I can make and fit the buttstock some sixteenth of an inch or so larger all around, to provide a handle to assist with jointing the monoblock/barrel assembly.

I do love getting stuff in the mail. I am like a kid at Christmas waiting on parts. This is just some of the fun stuff that comes with a build.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
LC Cmith Project--TIG Repair of the Triggerplate

Hey all
We addressed the TIG welding of the triggerplate yesterday morning. I got back some responses to my case coloring questions on the Practical Machinist Forum. The process involves heating the parts inside a carburizing box to critical temperature, so any annealing needed is built in. Also it does no harm to anneal a part to repair it before the process takes place. That being said we went ahead and took the trigger plate up to a bright orange color with the torch, and stuck it in the lime box to cool it slowly as possible. Then the welding was done on the annealed part. It is now much softer and easier to work, A lesson was learned. We stayed just a tad too long with the torch on the very thin web around the hole at the top of the safety block, and we burned a bit of material away. If you would attempt to anneal such small parts with a torch, I think better to place them on a small scrap of metal plate and run the torch on the plate instead to bring them up to heat. In Pictures #1 and #2 the kid has placed a bit of TIG weld around the hole to build up and replace the metal we burned away. Pictures #3 and #4 show two views of the mild steel plug welded into the drilled hole. After dressing out this weld, I wound up with a very small surface void. Picture #5. It would not show, the exposed side of the trigger plate cleaned up very well indeed, but we will put a tiny spot of weld there this morning to fix the void. The goal, of course, is to wind up with a part that you cannot tell was repaired but you do have to stay with them awhile till you get there.

Next up touch up weld, dress the welds out, and begin the fitting up of the trigger plate. . .
 

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Discussion Starter #40 (Edited)
LC Smith Project--Weekend Post--Ejector Plans and Such

Hey All
The welder kid at work has been out on the portables all week, I've been busy trying to drill and fit parts for him for assemblies I don't get to see. There was no chance to touch up the TIG welds on the LC trigger plate at any rate. I did get soft hardware screws fitted up properly to the LC frame to hold everything in place during the process, but I cannot go forward with assembly until the trigger plate welds are touched up to my satisfaction.

The mail lady showed up right on time Saturday with my ejector fore end metal though, so this evening I spent measuring, checking and seeing what I can come up with for an ejector assembly. I was not sure what I was looking at exactly in the pictures of the fore end iron, I was leaning heavily toward an Ithaca or perhaps a Fox ejector grade. I got a very pleasant surprise, once I got it in my hands. It is a late Syracuse Arms iron for an ejector 12 gauge patented by one George A. Horne in Oct 1896. Missing is the fore end catch, and the external mechanism for turning the ejectors off and on, a nice touch unique to Mr. Horne although Uncle Dan LeFever had his version of the same. The part is in the white, and appears unused. The high serial number may indicate it was an inventory part left over from the sale of the company in 1905 and the not too distant subsequent closure.

The only Syracuse shotgun I have on hand is a damascus 10 bore Hollenbeck gun, very early Syracuse serial 3xxx.

In Picture # 1 is the 12 gauge LC Featherweight on the left, and the 10 gauge Hollenbeck on the right. Notice the size difference!

Picture #2 shows the real difference between the two guns, as far as ejector mechanisms go. The LC uses a separate hinged part in the fore end iron to activate the extractors, and the Hollenbeck uses the solid round pin dead center in front to activate them. This Hollenbeck is an extractor gun, picture #3 shows the difference between the for end irons, the extractor metal on the left, the ejector on the right. The ejector frame would have hammer links installed in holes drilled front to back through the frame so the fired hammer would push a stem out into the hinge joint and into the for end iron cutout(s) to activate the ejector sear(s) of the fired barrel(s) only. Picture #4 are the sears that hold and release the ejector strikers Picture #5. Notice the space between the strikers, this is where a thinned version of the solid pin from Picture #2 protrudes between them to extract and lift the shell(s) in the unfired barrel.

These early ejector systems have their faults. Probably the worst feature is that the ejectors are "cocked" by the standing breech pressing the ejector\extractors into their seats as the gun is closed. This limits travel of the extracting mechanism to not really enough, and makes the shotgun harder to close.

Here is my preliminary plan, subject to many refinements. I would space the ejectors in my mono block to approximately match either side of the LC barrel lug. This gets each of them working in its own hole, like a modern over/under rather than using a split extractor system. Dragging against one another is inevitable in the split system. I would utilize the crank lever cocking arrangement of the LC system to cock the ejectors, possibly by riding down an integral angled surface on the ejector strikers during the crank lever's swinging travel. Lastly, I would use some form of a projection activated by a crank lever in the fired position to trip the sear of the ejector of the fired barrel only, something George O. Lewis already worked out on the somewhat later LC ejector guns. The hinged extractor activation lever in the LC for end iron would be retained, but made t-shaped to bridge the ends of the wider spaced extractor stems. I'll be tinkering, and thinking this out til such time comes to begin construction of the monoblock, perhaps mocking up a mild steel model or two.
 

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