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Discussion starter · #41 ·
It depends on the intended use for the gun. Inside your house, for tight quarters, it will be fine. I'm also building pistol-grip guns for our motor squad. They have a storage issue. Would I trade my regular patrol shotgun for a PG shotgun? Never! Do they have a use? Heck ya, but they take dedication to train up and stay proficient with them.

If you don't have the time or desire to shoot these things a lot, then yeah, they are a waste. But if you have that specific need for a really short gun and have the resources to train with it, then it is very useful.

I think your last sentance hit the nail on the head. The "overall" usefulness of the gun is lacking. It is not a general purpose gun like our full size 870s are. It is a niche weapon.
I agree with you.
The reason im looking if for HD only. I wouldnt want to use a pistol for HD, I have a few and I have a 870 Mag. pump in the gun case... but It's too long to use for HD... What's all this talk about not being able to aim it... at 10-15 feet from a Badguy with 00buckshot... point and shoot wouldnt do the trick?

Maybe some birdshot first, then something stronger.
 
Discussion starter · #42 ·
I agree with you.
The reason im looking if for HD only. I wouldnt want to use a pistol for HD, I have a few and I have a 870 Mag. pump in the gun case... but It's too long to use for HD... What's all this talk about not being able to aim it... at 10-15 feet from a Badguy with 00buckshot... point and shoot wouldnt do the trick?

Maybe some birdshot first, then something stronger.
You need to go out and pattern a shotgun then...buckshot will pattern much like a slug at those distances. VERY easy to miss. You're typicaly making one large hole, not the 3-4" spread that some people seem to think you'll get.

You might get a decent spread at those distances with generic buckshot out of a VERY short barrel. But IMO the key to buckshot is keeping a relatively tight group anyways.

Go to the range (outdoors is best for this) and try point shooting from the hip. Make sure you're using a typical man sized target. If you can hit COM reliably then good for you. If you can't...might want to throw a butt stock on it and a tritium bead. I also don't think recoil will be an issue, unless you're runnign magnum loads. I think the old "birdshot is for birds" line is worn out enough...everyone should know better by now. Although if you have it on hand it's certainly good to help acclimate you to the gun.

You should try a shotgun with a youth stock. I have one on my mossy and it makes a huge difference. For one it doesn't feel like you're playing the trombone, and two it makes it a couple inches shorter. Feels a lot like shooting an AR nose to charging handle. Or go the SBS route and get something like a 14" barrel. Still OK capacity with greatly reduced length. Although you should grab one of your pistols and measure how far out it's held when compared to a shotgun. Measure muzzle to muzzle...you'll most likely find the pistol is out there quite a bit, and probably won't save you much length over a shotgun.
 
Discussion starter · #43 ·
I agree with you.
The reason im looking if for HD only. I wouldnt want to use a pistol for HD, I have a few and I have a 870 Mag. pump in the gun case... but It's too long to use for HD... What's all this talk about not being able to aim it... at 10-15 feet from a Badguy with 00buckshot... point and shoot wouldnt do the trick?

Maybe some birdshot first, then something stronger.
Joey said it. At close range you need to aim a shotgun just like handgun or a rifle. With a typical (nothing is every typical) shotgun with a cylinder bore you get 1 inch of spread per yard. So at 7 yards your spread is only 7 inches. That is not a point in the general direction weapon. With good shotguns like my Vang Comped 870 my pattern is much tighter. Its still the size of a fist at 15 yards.
Pat

Patrol shotgun

Truck gun

Three gun shotgun.
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
I wouldn't bank on the 1" per yard mantra, even. It might be that way with cheap ammo, but it's not the norm. At least not what I shoot. With an 18" barrel and generic 2 3/4" buck shot from Federal, Winchester, etc. (NOT the real cheap stuff) I can see the separate shot holes at 10-15 yards. With some of the premium offerings they are designed to group tighter, and you can make one hole per shell well into the 20 yard mark (sometimes).

In either event...it's certainly enough room to miss. On top of that, I want a direct hit with a shotgun. If only one or two pellets hit then, IMO, that might as well be a miss. Probably going to hit their side (no vitals), and those two pellets alone won't cause much damage. Sure it's a hit, but not a good one, and not one I would rely upon.

I suggest a shotgun training course with whatever you decide to run. At the end of the day whatever you train to do will be your best bet. Run a pistol grip shotty all you want, just make sure you train for it. I missed out on the recent shotty training by me...although I saw some of the class. It's an eye opener for sure. Really shows that a shotgun is not a magic gun, and it needs to be aimed just like a pistol or rifle. IMO, getting some good training with a pistol grip shotty is infinitely better then no training with a standard shotgun.
 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
I wouldn't bank on the 1" per yard mantra, even. It might be that way with cheap ammo, but it's not the norm. At least not what I shoot. With an 18" barrel and generic 2 3/4" buck shot from Federal, Winchester, etc. (NOT the real cheap stuff) I can see the separate shot holes at 10-15 yards. With some of the premium offerings they are designed to group tighter, and you can make one hole per shell well into the 20 yard mark (sometimes).

In either event...it's certainly enough room to miss. On top of that, I want a direct hit with a shotgun. If only one or two pellets hit then, IMO, that might as well be a miss. Probably going to hit their side (no vitals), and those two pellets alone won't cause much damage. Sure it's a hit, but not a good one, and not one I would rely upon.

I suggest a shotgun training course with whatever you decide to run. At the end of the day whatever you train to do will be your best bet. Run a pistol grip shotty all you want, just make sure you train for it. I missed out on the recent shotty training by me...although I saw some of the class. It's an eye opener for sure. Really shows that a shotgun is not a magic gun, and it needs to be aimed just like a pistol or rifle. IMO, getting some good training with a pistol grip shotty is infinitely better then no training with a standard shotgun.
The 1 inch per yard is just a subjective standard invidual guns vary a lot. My 14 inch Vang patterns better than my 20 inch truck gun with a new barrel. My Benelli does better than both.
Here is the Benelli with Federal Tactical at 25 yards. (9pellet buck)

 
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