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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been watching a lot of Magpul's dvds and the recent one I got is the shotgun one. In it, they teach you about changing out shells, ejecting and dropping a different shot and emergency reload, where you rack and drop a shell into an empty chamber and rack the pump forward.

When I talked about this to a cop buddy of mine, he said that's dangerous because you can accidentally discharge it if you just drop it in there and rack the pump home.

I want to know what is the truth about this, because if official training DVDs from a notable company like Magpul with professional instructors are wrong, who's right?

Can the shell be accidentally discharge during an emergency reload by dropping a shell into the breach?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I've been watching a lot of Magpul's dvds and the recent one I got is the shotgun one. In it, they teach you about changing out shells, ejecting and dropping a different shot and emergency reload, where you rack and drop a shell into an empty chamber and rack the pump forward.

When I talked about this to a cop buddy of mine, he said that's dangerous because you can accidentally discharge it if you just drop it in there and rack the pump home.

I want to know what is the truth about this, because if official training DVDs from a notable company like Magpul with professional instructors are wrong, who's right?

Can the shell be accidentally discharge during an emergency reload by dropping a shell into the breach?
I'm no shotgun expert but I say no, it shouldn't discharge. Look at it this way, you fire off a round, pump the shotgun back (ejects spent hull, releases next shell in ammo tube), push pump forward shoving next hot round into the Barrel.

By dropping a round into the shotgun with the action open, you're basically just skipping the ammo tube, that's all. Your firing pin should not be out at this point...and that's the only thing that would fire off a round save pulling the trigger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You are risking a jamb by doing that. When you rack the slide to eject the shell, as soon as it ejects, another round is released from the tube ready to be pushed forward. If you drop an extra shell into the chamber you will then be having 2 shells competing for only one chamber, thus a jamb. I don't know why you would need to take out some shells to be replaced by others, but if you must, I reccomend a different way. What I would do, eject 1 or two by racking the slide and then with a shell still loaded in the chamber, add the heavier shell loads into the magazine. Then rack the slide again to put 1 of those into the chamber. Next add 1 more heavy load into the magazine. That way you are never un-loaded while making the change and no jambs will occur.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If your shotgun was empty with none in the magazine tube you can safely load one into the chamber by opening the action and dropping one into the chamber without worry of an accidental discharge. After doing that, load the mag tube to max count of shells. I have never heard of a shell discharging in a pump shotgun by dropping one into the open chamber to load. I always load my Winchester 1400 Auto 12 ga. by inserting 1 into the chamber before or after loading the mag which only holds 2 rounds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well ur not suposed to do that with a pistol for the same reason, among others, so wouldnt say its too far fetched. I believe ANYTHING can happen. Is it likely, prolly not. my emergancy shotgun reload is grabbing the xd.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I've been watching a lot of Magpul's dvds and the recent one I got is the shotgun one. In it, they teach you about changing out shells, ejecting and dropping a different shot and emergency reload, where you rack and drop a shell into an empty chamber and rack the pump forward.

When I talked about this to a cop buddy of mine, he said that's dangerous because you can accidentally discharge it if you just drop it in there and rack the pump home.

I want to know what is the truth about this, because if official training DVDs from a notable company like Magpul with professional instructors are wrong, who's right?

Can the shell be accidentally discharge during an emergency reload by dropping a shell into the breach?
While there are no absolutes in life; I would say it would be highly unlikely to AD a shotgun by loading directly into the receiver. You do give up the controlled feed via the shell carrier. I can see the need to switch loads, if a situation calls for it. Say from buckshot to a slug or speciality round. With practice you can learn to short stroke a pump in orber to eject a chambered round without releasing one from the magazine. Its alittle tricker with an autoloader but can be done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The Marine Corps instructor I am learning with, teaches the same as the MagPul vid. you talk about. Slide is back and chamber open - take two shells in hands, one goes into the chamber and slide pumped forward.... then the 2nd shell is fed into the mag.

Also have to 2nd what Smokehouse said..... there is not a whole lot of difference between loading a shell into the chamber and then sliding pump forward vs the standard racking of the slide when all shells are coming from the magazine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I know how to switch shells without letting another one from the tube get caught and causing a double feed by pumping half way, resetting the tube and then rack completely to eject the chambered shell and then drop.

My cop buddy is a Marine and he says when you drop a shell in the open breach like that, the extractor has a chance of discharging the primer by hitting it because it has nothing to catch since you are skipping the process of getting a round from the tube
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Next time you have your shot gun in your hand rack it. See how the shell sits in there. Now, with an empty action drop a shell into the action. You will notice that dropping one in and racking the shotgun causes the shell to end up in the same place. You can't do this with handguns like the XD because the bullets slide up from underneath the extractor where in the shotgun the extractor slide around the shell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, A shotshell is about 3/4 " wide with the primer at least 1/4" away from the outside edge of the case. The extractor does not protrude into the chamber more than 1/16 ". There is not enough "slop" in the chamber area for the primer ever to come into contact with the extractor. IMO, the extractor can never fire the shell regardless of how the shell is chambered. If this could happen, there would be a lot of AD's when rapid firing the shotgun.

Adding a note: The extractor is shaped like 1/2 of an arrow with the point protected inside a grove machined in the side of the reciever. The only part of it that contacts a shell being chamberes is the sloped edge as it slides around the case. No way can a sloped smooth part of an extractor egnite a primer. Explain that to your cop buddy marine friend.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Next time you have your shot gun in your hand rack it. See how the shell sits in there. Now, with an empty action drop a shell into the action. You will notice that dropping one in and racking the shotgun causes the shell to end up in the same place. You can't do this with handguns like the XD because the bullets slide up from underneath the extractor where in the shotgun the extractor slide around the shell.
People **** up all the time dropping their top off round into the chamber then releasing the slide. Its not designed to do that.

Im fully aware of how both my Mossy and XD function. Its simple mechanics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I know how to switch shells without letting another one from the tube get caught and causing a double feed by pumping half way, resetting the tube and then rack completely to eject the chambered shell and then drop.

My cop buddy is a Marine and he says when you drop a shell in the open breach like that, the extractor has a chance of discharging the primer by hitting it because it has nothing to catch since you are skipping the process of getting a round from the tube
I quess Magpul as well as Remington must be wrong then.

WARNING

Always check the shell for the correct gauge and length before loading the firearm.

II. TO LOAD THE CHAMBER AND MAGAZINE:


1. Point the firearm in a safe direction.

2. Engage the safety mechanism.





RED BAND WILL NOT SHOW.

3. Push upward on the action bar lock.

4. Pull the fore-end fully rearward to open the action.

5. Put one shell of the correct gauge and length through the ejection port. See Picture 8.

6. Push the fore-end forward to close the action.




THE FIREARM IS NOW LOADED.





7. Press shell against the carrier. See Picture 9.

8. Push three (3) 3-1/2" (870 Super Magnum™ only) shells or four

(4) 3" or 2-3/4" shells of the correct gauge and length, one at a

time, fully forward into the magazine.




page 10 Remington Arms 870 manual




 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I quess Magpul as well as Remington must be wrong then.

WARNING

Always check the shell for the correct gauge and length before loading the firearm.

II. TO LOAD THE CHAMBER AND MAGAZINE:


1. Point the firearm in a safe direction.

2. Engage the safety mechanism.





RED BAND WILL NOT SHOW.

3. Push upward on the action bar lock.

4. Pull the fore-end fully rearward to open the action.

5. Put one shell of the correct gauge and length through the ejection port. See Picture 8.

6. Push the fore-end forward to close the action.




THE FIREARM IS NOW LOADED.





7. Press shell against the carrier. See Picture 9.

8. Push three (3) 3-1/2" (870 Super Magnum™ only) shells or four

(4) 3" or 2-3/4" shells of the correct gauge and length, one at a

time, fully forward into the magazine.




page 10 Remington Arms 870 manual




everyone knows that cops know everything about firearms... :shock:
seriously, dropping a round thru the ejection port with the action open puts the round in the exact same place as the magazine tube when the interrupter is moved. I guess you risk dropping the round in backwards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I just looked at mine again, on the 500 the extractor is pinned to the firing pin housing. With enough force it could ignite a round. However the location of it seems damn near impossable. you prolly couldn rt ever make it happen if you tried but I never say never. If your getting shot it its the last thing you need to worry about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Odds are you'll never have a problem because most shotguns are manufactured around looser tolerances (i.e. 870's & 500's) than semi auto handguns. The ejectors dont have to be as tight, so they'll snap around a shell much easier than the ones on a handgun.

I "emergency reload" all the time when I duck/goose hunt just to get one final shot on a retreating group; never had a problem....and (knock on wood) probably will never think/worry about this again...lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
There's no problem with dropping a shotshell in the chamber and closing the slide--unlike most pistols (Beretta M92 and a few others beinng exceptions), the extractor is desigend to snap over the rim, not have the round slide in from below.

As for the negligent discharge--this sounds like a bit of carryover from the old Winchester M12 days--the ones with the "slamfire" option.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
this thread is full of fail.

drop a shell in the tray on an open bolt. It's fine. Perfectly fine.

the reason you dont do this on a pistol, which should be obvious since they are different weapons (duh) is because a pistol slides the case rim in to the ejector, where as a shotgun is meant to pop over the rim.

and btw, this marine cop friend of yours should stop pretending like he knows what he's talking about. and remember, just because they carry guns, doesnt mean they know anything about them. Which is sad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I will, and if he doesn't accept the facts of a shotgun, then forget him. He's a buddy but I can't always convince him even if it is right.

I mean it kinda doesn't make sense. If you work the pump to load a round and then just shake the gun, the shell will fall out. So dropping a shell straight in there will just drop it to where a shell would usually be when you rack the pump. It doesn't make sense that the extractor would set it off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
If you ever go to a high school trap shooting competition, you will see this is how they load one round at a time. They never load into the tube since they only take one shot at a time. Now I am not saying its impossible to have a discharge, I will say in the thousands of rounds I have seen loaded this way, I have yet to see it happen....my 1 cent worth, it's too late for 2
 
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