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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys I'm moving from the mtns to the city and I usually keep my 500A loaded with 00. Obviously this is not a smart idea for an apartment with ppl on the other side of the walls. So what would be a good defensive load for an apartment that won't over-penetrate?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
First off, I am not a big advocate of anything but buckshot or slugs in a shotgun for defense. That being said, if I lived in an apartment with neighbors just on the other side of thin walls I would use #4 or 6 shot. At distances of 10-30 feet it should stop a threat well enough. I once saw a deer which was shot at appox. 20 feet with a load of #6's (guy thought he had buckshot in just loaded the wrong shell in the darkness of predawn). The deer only went about 20 yards after the shot and when field dressing it we found several pellets which had penetrated the heart and lungs.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I've shot #4 from a pistol gripped 500 it's some pretty stout stuff but should not overpenetrate as much as 00 buckshot. it's the smallest I would go for a shotgun HD load. You might find some frangible 12ga buckshot for sale on the net alot of places i just looked you had to be Military or a LEO to purchase though..try gunbroker it might help. Shreds soft tissue but if it impacts a hard surface such as a wall pretty much dissinagrates..least thats what it's supposed to do.

so I have no idea what this stuff would do to a person but here is some remington disintegrator ammo. Its used on steel targets or hard backstops so that it breaks up and does not ricochet, I'd wager this would still be a decent HD rnd though.
Ammunition To Go : 25rds - 12 Gauge Remington Disintegrator 2 3/4" Lead Free Frangible 00 Buckshot [LF129B00] - $21.95
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I live in an apartment I load my 12 gauge with 00 buck, @ the distance I'd use it in the house I wouldn't miss.

Odds are if I had to use a gun to defend myself in the home I'd be a .45acp 1911 anyhow.
 

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That .45 will definitely penetrate into your neighbors apt. Yes even with hollow points. I would not recommend using that. I do not want to go to prison because of an attack in my own home and an innocent person gets killed. You are the victim who just became the assailant all of a sudden.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I agree that for home defense, the correct load is buckshot.

Anything powerful enough to kill a two legged varmint will be powerful enough to penetrate a typical house wall if shot directly into the wall.

For home defense I use #4 Buckshot in a 12 ga. or #3 Buckshot in a 20 ga. Both have good penetration within the distances found inside a home or apartment and are less likely to over penetrate as long as you aim correctly and hit your intended target.

Birdshot will make a very ugly but SHALLOW wound that may not penetrate the rib cage and is not recommended for anything larger than, well, birds.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
That .45 will definitely penetrate into your neighbors apt. Yes even with hollow points. I would not recommend using that. I do not want to go to prison because of an attack in my own home and an innocent person gets killed. You are the victim who just became the assailant all of a sudden.
It depends where you live.

Sometimes I seriously wonder if anyone knows exactly what the laws are that govern the use of lethal force in their state.

RCW 9A.16.030: Homicide ? When excusable.

Almost every state out there has a similar law. I think I think I think dont cut it in such a situation.

Use buckshot, keep it legal. Ontop of that do an effing walk of the apartment and see what angles are safe to shoot and not safe.

Just dont sit there on the computer stressing out and thinking about it. Get out of the computer seat and figure something out.........
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Doesn't seem to me that you're stressing out about it - seems like you just thinking it through. I don't think you're going be thinking about safe angles to shoot if you find yourself in a real HD situation. Go with the #6 if the apt is really tight, or the #4 if there's a bit more room. Load it up and you're ready to go. You won't be thinking about safe angles, and you won't be thinking "Ah heck, maybe I shouldn't pull the trigger". You'll be good to go.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
A shotgun is not a weapon to have in hand if you are going to be mobile anyway. It is more of the I am static and standing my ground from here kind of weapon while I am on the line with 911. In that case yes a safe angle can be figured out. You wont answer that odd knock at the door late at night with a street howitzer. You will not be a one man swat team and clear your apt with the shotgun either.

We got a family plan. If I have to gather anyone it will be with pistol. When gathered we will be static with the shotgun being fired at a safe angle that will enter the atic of my house and probably not even exit after going throuh a couple walls and a cieling.

This is my static hold my ground load. A two pellet buckshot load.



Two .650 caliber balls...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Just remember anyone can sue anyone at anytime for anything. Being legal is good, but if an innocent bystander gets hurt, expect a lawsuit.
I could not agree more. FWIW I expect a lawsuit if such a situation arises. I will also have a smile on my face everyday I go to fight it if it were to happen. I will be alive, what better reason to smile?

Thats when we get back to the angles of the shot. If anyone knows anything about the safety rules of shooting knows this.

Know your target and what is beyond.
Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.
taken from here

NRA Gun Safety Rules

Safety rules are not thrown out the window in a defensive shoot. They NEED to be appleid at all times. Period. No debates about it. YOU and YOU alone are responsible for shooting safely.

If you feel you can not be safe about it, then learn how to be safe about it. It is that simple.....
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The Box O' Truth #1 - The Original Box O' Truth - Page 1

.45 went through 7 pine boards and .223 went through 12 and kept going.

Sheet rock doesnt even slow rounds down.
And again I will point out the major flaw in those test--that if you live in a house that the walls are 1" thick, with rooms 1" wide, that test is applicable. For those of us who don't live in the fun house, not so much.

Put a little space out there for the .223's to yaw (as they're supposed to)--say 3.5" spacing on the initial "wall", and 10' between the next, you'll get a very different result...whereas with the pistol rounds, you'll see similar results as the BoT.
 
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