welcome to reloading.

what load are you going to load bob?

hull =
powder =
wad =
shot size =
primer =

before i closed my membership down in conn, i use to get reloading gear thru the club at discount on bulk orders of 5000 wads per box.

shipping is a killer. pro shops at ranges are your only bet. the big box stores jack the prices on everything and the gun industry has jacked all reloading stuff to take advantage of the ammo shortage. usps and fedex jack their prices to cut into all of it as well.

im living off what i bought 5 years ago. i pulled all my reloading stuff from the club when the hoarders came looking. i knew theyd want to clean me out, so i pulled it just in time.

seriously...give gso on ftf a call. he has a business license and can buy in bulk and wholesale.

 

GB, a lot of this ammo/gun stuff is pure marketing or the latest trend. You can spend as much as you want for high priced ammo, or you can walk into Walmart, buy the cheap stuff and get almost as many hits.
If I was hunting I'd buy better ammo. For recreational clays, the cheap stuff has the advantage of quantity and satisfactory quality.
Downside is the cheap stuff tends to be dirty.

 

...and in light of what kind of guns you own and the scores you achieve bob, walmart is the best way to go. id recommend reloading to you if you were shooting 5000 rounds a year. but if youre just reloading for passtime or recreational hobby...its gonna be expense.
lead use to be a scrap metal.
but now lead is a commodity closer to bronze because of chinese reduction in export. china has so much lead, they were selling it to get rid of it as a scrap metal to the world. but now they have cars and cars need batteries. they shut the doors and trickle it out to us.
peru cant keep up with demand and viola...lead is valuable.

there went reloading as a cheap alternative to shooting.

 

oldest trick in the books....control the gunpowder and you control the people.

if people demand gunpowder, make it so expensive they wont reload in order to pay food bills.

welcome to obama's team of communists.

 

Our club no longer sells shotgun ammo because of the new law here requiring a certificate from the state(a new tax) to purchase ammo. They continue to sell components and the prices have gone up. Only 12 ga components are sold and prices are comparable to on line sources.

 

You need to buy wads by the case of 5000 to save money, same with primers. Powder in 8# jugs and shot by the hundredweight or better - by the ton or pallet

 

thats one of the reasons why i dropped my conn. club membership at seymour f&g club.

i would have had to have a buyers i.d. licensed and fee taxed card to buy reloading stuff. its insane up there now. and the rest of the country is slowly following suit.

 

Bob et.al.

I appreciate all the comments...the situation of cost gouging is not a surprise. While I was hoping there might be some cost savings aspects, that's not the main reason I decided to start reloading shotshells. But sounds like buying in bulk may be the best cost alternative. I enjoy reloading 9mm (which fortunately DOES have cost savings) and want to do this for learning something new, and for the same enjoyment. And, perhaps it will encourage me to shoot more often and improve.

For loading, I plan on following published load plans using the following - trying to keep the varieties to a minimum, to keep from having to buy a lot of different things:

hull = Mainly Winchester AA and Remington; perhaps some Federal and Fiocchi
powder = WSF, WST, Universal, Clays, 700X, and/or 800X (want powders I can also reload 9mm with)
wad = WAA12, WT12, Windjammer (probably Claybuster equivalents) as appropriate to the hulls. Want to use the minimum different ones I am able per published loads
shot size = 7.5 for Trap, 8 or 9 for Skeet
primer = CCI 209, Win 209, or others as needed per load charts (again, keeping to a minimum)

I have contacted GSO and he is checking on things for me....thanks for the suggestion - great minds think alike!

 

Geo, you will save money reloading but that's not why I do it. I enjoy it as a hobby and I can load what I need when I need it and not worry about ammo supplies in stores. I am able to assemble loads that are not readily available.
The margins on 12 ga are small but savings on other gauges will be higher.

 

geo, as you know many people at the shoot are recoil sensitive. i make low recoil 20ga loads for the girls. its a good market. thats why i reload. i can make custom loads.

my latest loading has taken a hit when a major supplier sent me tainted powder. all 8 lbs of it. im stuck. so i just load it and piff it out wth squibs.

the new aa's are crap. people swear by them but they require a unique aa/hs wad because of the id hull shape.
they tend to crease in the middle, split lengthwise, and squish too.
id rather go with remingtons sts, nitro 27, or gun clubs.
i still use old aa's. i mean 20 year old aa's..that can take a waa-12 wad with 700x.
8's are a right down the middle of the road shot. the shoot and hoots call for occasional 27yd shots, but loading 7.5's just for that is obsessive.
btw...i beat gso at the 40yd line with 8's.

i feel no difference btwn cci and win 209 prmers. feds are cheaper. i even use them.
steer away from import primers. they are larger in the flash hole and open up your hulls. if you later change to a usa primer, they will fall out since the hulls were enlarged. rule of thumb is if you go with import primers, you must stay with them until the hull falls apart. i/e: noble's.

this is one of the reasons being a 'picker' at a range is dangerous unless you are skilled like me.
i can look at a hull and tell you if its ruined.

if say you go and pick up hulls and run them thru the press not knowing if what you knocked out was a euro primer...youre setting yourself up for a backflash if a usa primer comes flying out at peak igition.

welcome to shotgun reloading. lol.


now you know some of the things that go thru my mind as i stand out there running a meet at my place.

its sorta like trying to memorize the natops emergency pages sitting on your knee board.

you hitting birds and scoring is the least of my worries. i just want all of you to make it thru the course alive.

and its why i hope someone does donate an emergency kit to the shoot some day.

 

hull = Mainly Winchester AA and Remington; perhaps some Federal and Fiocchi
powder = WSF, WST, Universal, Clays, 700X, and/or 800X (want powders I can also reload 9mm with)
wad = WAA12, WT12, Windjammer (probably Claybuster equivalents) as appropriate to the hulls. Want to use the minimum different ones I am able per published loads
shot size = 7.5 for Trap, 8 or 9 for Skeet
primer = CCI 209, Win 209, or others as needed per load charts (again, keeping to a minimum)

First - Win and Rem hulls can use the same wad, but the hulls are not the same length. Fed will use a different wad and Fiocchi another one still.

Second - You won't see Clays or Universal for a while

Primer choices are interchangeable, but if you go with Euro primers, which tend to be ever so slightly larger you MAY (not guaranteed) experience enlarged primer pockets so swapping back to US primers might present an issue

For clay targets look at loading 7/8oz or less - you'll save money on shot and wear and tear on your shoulder

 

Bobski and OneOunceLoad

Thanks so much for your good thoughts and advice. I assume CCI-209 and Win-209 primers are USA and not Euro? So I should be OK with using them.

Yep, did catch that Win and Rem hulls had same load components, and Fed and Fiocchi were also similar. Hodgson loads show some similar wads and primers for all these hulls, pending the powder used.

Powder: I really hoped to get some Universal. I already have some WSF from 9mm reloading, so I have some to get started. I also have some Win 231, but didn't see it listed in the Hodgson recipes. Anyone know why? It's burn rate is between 700X and 800X and very close to Universal. Shouldn't powders with same burn rates be usable? Or is it the "sphere" vs "flake" grain shapes? Which is better for reloading - "sphere" or "flake"?

QUESTION: I notice some hull loads include most powders I noted, while other hull types may omit one. What is the reason for this? I notice that in a burn chart, Clays & 700X are very close to same faster burn rate, while WSF and 800X are fairly close. Seems a hull that can use Clays should be able to use 700X, and same for WSF and 800X, yet some hulls omit one powder in these pairing. Wonder why?



Thanks again for the continued guidance!

 

Do NOT go by burn rate - that has nothing to do with pressures generated and can lead to serious KABOOMS. This is NOT metallic where you "work up a load".

While many components can be safely swapped. trying to extrapolate powder loads based on burn rates is bad ju-ju

 

cci and win 209's are usa primers.
cci is hotter and win is slower.
feds are closer to win's and are usa too.

 

keep in mind, powder co.'s tend to push their products. win will list more data for win componants, rem will give more data for rem etc...

i find a lot of wildcatters in books, catalogs, etc...that did all the hail mary dirty work for you. they do work, but for litigation reasons, the co's wont list it unless they did it. you know that. rifle, pistol shotgun...its all the same issue.

unlike pistol or rifle where you trickle powder to exacting loads...youll find shotgun loads are approx if best.
mec bushing are never really what they say they are. one test for yourself with a powder scale will show you that. they always underload their bushings iaw insurance co. pressure.
even the uni-bar is off a turn or two.
so, once you get into shotgunning, youll become accustom to that occasional peep/poop/piff round more than you will with pistol or rifle. just like brass, hulls change pressures as they are reloaded over and over to a pont where pressure will change so much, shots can be flying 200fps off data just be being loaded 5 or 7 times instead of twice.
this is why many loaders keep close tabs on their hulls and dont mix them.

not me...im cheapo man. i got once fired seperated....but all the rest its whateer i grab next gets loaded. 3 times, 5 times, twice....heck no trophy is on the line anymore, so it doesnt matter. thats why youll hear a poop every so often. and thats why good ranges will always have a rod to push out stuck wads during a round.

in shotgun relaoding, wax and toilet paper will become your friend.

and for GODS sake, listen to oneounce. dont even consider pistol rifle powders not listed for use in shotgun.

 

Now Bob, if you have poppy loads, go to www.birddgosandguns.com and buy one of his wad knockers. Great customer service and a top tier product!

As to primers, Fed209As are hotter than Win209

You are absolutely right on MEC bushings, they always drop light which is why a good scale is mandatory.

As to hulls, I learned a long time ago that for 12 & 20, Remingtons get the nod while for 28 & 410, Win AAs are the go-to hulls

Euro trash can be reloaded but the component costs and all of the variables make it more expensive than it needs to be.

 

Your link is bad.
I load lots of Eurotrash in 12ga, most Federal wads work ok, but it's once and done. They're great for taking to a distant club, shoot 'em up and toss in the trash, nothing to bring home.
I have not seen a sub-gauge Euro hull worth messing with, though - with the exception of 16ga. There, I use what I can get - and find data for, that is.

 

Thanks - damn ten thumbs spelled dogs wrong.......... ARGH!

 

It was a typo - here is the link that OneOunceLoad referenced:
Universal Wad Knocker [WK6] - $7.95 : Bird Dogs N Guns, Made in the USA

Thanks for the continued advice, everyone. I have no intention of experimenting with different powders; I just asked if anyone knew any info on the subject. I triple check my 9mm load weights (hand load using scoops), and already planned on using a scale to check my shotgun reloading.

I will check other sources for recipes for shotgun loads besides Hodgson. It is frustrating if they are listing certain wads for hulls that may cause problems. Is there a better source of info for matching wads to hull brands?

Bobski, as I posted on FTF, if no one has volunteered an emergency kit, I will get one for our October shoot. Please tell me what you want. I'll be bringing as many clays as I can fit in my Prius - already have 10 boxes (90 each, $5.99 sale at Academy).

 

Bobski - can you please give more info on the "wax and toilet paper your friend" comment? I assume for spacer padding and for helping crimp closure? But can you explain further? In other words, how to recognize and employ these tools?
Thanks!

 

If you need filler for your hulls, a Cheerio or two placed after you drop the shot works well. Did that when I was using up 7/8oz wads on 3/4oz loads - crimps came out perfect. Want to make them smell nice? Use Honey Nut Cheerios

 

toilet paper is more fun.

 

When I lived out West, there was an eccentric old gent who spent post WWII in England at Oxford teaching. It afforded him the opportunities to go to the main continent into all of the small German and Austrian specialty gun makers and buy some incredible custom creations as well as picking up H&H, Purdey and other British guns for a song. He also reloaded. He picked up ANY hull, used the same recipe no matter what, and if there was too much room, used TP as a filler. he shows up one day in his Caddy, his Tide detergent box full of reloads and a H&H Royal SxS. Puts two shells in on the 5-stand, calls pull and out of the barrels of a $100,000 shotgun comes TP confetti. In all fairness, he broke the targets, but it was damn amusing to see someone shooting a gun that cost more than my house using TP as a filler because he was too cheap to buy the proper wad for the hull he was using...............

He had a Beretta SO3 in 12 gauge that he had special built - 4#, 8oz; he had drillings, vierlings and funflings from Austria built in odd combos - his collection then (1990s) was over 5 million

Some versions of similar guns can be found here:

Peter Hofer Jagdwaffen - Selected products

 

its a good life for those that can enjoy it.
toilet paper breaks the ice on a range when no one knows each other. it loosens people up and they laugh.
the way it was meant to be.

 

A lot of my Eurotrash 3/4oz reloads need filler. I usually use Styrofoam discs cut from supermarket meat trays with a home-made punch, but sometimes I cut from several pages of a magazine to produce confetti shells, similar to using TP. Most folks get a kick out of it, anyone who complains, I just make it a point not to shoot with them. I don't want to distract them, but they are way too serious for me.
I'm sure you'll see a couple of my confetti loads in Oct. sometime during the weekend.

 

well then....the confetti challenge is on!