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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
okie dokie, we just had a vehicle break-in and my gf is scared to death to stay by herself. given this was only wednesday night when it happened she is convinced that they are coming back to hit her home and only God knows what else. im honestly trying to be calm and cool given the circumstances, but the LEO told her that she needed somekind of weapon to defend herself with in case of emergency. i thought about leaving my G23 or XD9 with her when i leave at night,(dont live with her)but realized she is not experienced enough to handle either of those. im currently setup with a Mossberg 500 cruiser 12 ga at my home, but i really dont think she could handle it either with her being small and it having the knox stock on it.

on to the point now. i dont know much about shotgun loads since i tend to focus on my handguns more. i came across a nice mossberg 410 ga at wally world for a decent price and it seems that it would fit her much better. do you guys think it would be a nice platform for her to start with after i teach her the basic do's and dont's about how to handle it properly and whatnot? what would be a good HD load for it? buckshot? slug? anyone that uses this, what's your preferences?


if this is a bit confusing let me know and i'll try and clarify the best i can.


thanks for any help. much appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
3" .410 Buckshot is rather potent at ranges of 20 yards, and less. Check the choke on the shotgun, if it's tighter than modified, or improved cyclinder? She needs to practice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes it will work. Yes there are good loads - get some smaller buckshot (#4) and get her some trigger time so she isn't scared of the gun and it should work fine.

.410 still packs quite a punch compared to a handgun. The key is having her comfortable with it.

Edit: Even a .22LR that she can readily wield and shoot is better than a .45 she is scared to touch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The thing with .410 is that while it's a lighter load, it's usually in a lighter gun too, so there's still a deal of recoil with it. Also, .410 is harder to hit with than 12ga (obviously) and you're looking at a significant reduction in effectiveness of buck shot (4 pellets vs. 9) in .410.

With a 12ga, you can buy lighter loads and still be better off than .410, in my opinion. 000 buck or some lightly loaded 2 3/4" 00 will not be unmanageable. Not to mention, if it comes down to using it, there will be so much adrenaline in her system that your GF likely won't even notice the recoil. Winchester even makes a "WinLite" 00 buck load designed for low recoil.

A used Remington 870 or Mossy 500 can be had for around $250 - maybe closer to $350 for some of the 'tacticool' versions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The thing with .410 is that while it's a lighter load, it's usually in a lighter gun too, so there's still a deal of recoil with it. Also, .410 is harder to hit with than 12ga (obviously) and you're looking at a significant reduction in effectiveness of buck shot (4 pellets vs. 9) in .410.

With a 12ga, you can buy lighter loads and still be better off than .410, in my opinion. 000 buck or some lightly loaded 2 3/4" 00 will not be unmanageable. Not to mention, if it comes down to using it, there will be so much adrenaline in her system that your GF likely won't even notice the recoil. Winchester even makes a "WinLite" 00 buck load designed for low recoil.

A used Remington 870 or Mossy 500 can be had for around $250 - maybe closer to $350 for some of the 'tacticool' versions.
Good points..

The lower number of pellets is why I recommended something like #4 Buck. And if she is scared of the recoil it probably isn't a good HD gun for her.

Whatever you choose, make sure she can wield it comfortably.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Honestly, I would let her shoot the G23 and XD9 first.

Give her a quick run down about gun safety, proper grip, loading and reloading, and aiming. (At home)

Then go to the gun range and let her blast away, and evaluate her shooting skills and her behavior.

Under stress it'd be easier to just pull pull and pull the trigger (semi-auto handgun) than to pull the trigger then rack the slide, then pull again then rack the slide (shotty)


In short:

I would rather have a handgun handy for Home-defense than a 410 GA shotty.


Semi Auto handgun Benefits:

More rounds
Easy to manipulate
Easy to reload
Easy to handle in close quarters.
Good stopping power.

Semi Auto handgun drawbacks:

Have strength to rack the slide
Know how to aim properly
Know how to grip it properly


410 Shotgun Benefits
:confused:

410 Shotgun drawbacks:

Wimpy load for home defense
Difficult to handle inside your home/apartment YMMV
Difficult to hold aim/shoot/reload again, repeat as necessary (for a small petite woman) then again, your mileage may vary.


My girl can not handle my 590mossy with the Knox.
However she is DEADLY accurate with the XDM-40 and TLR2
That's "her gun :rolleyes:" whatever...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
okie dokie, we just had a vehicle break-in and my gf is scared to death to stay by herself. given this was only wednesday night when it happened she is convinced that they are coming back to hit her home and only God knows what else. im honestly trying to be calm and cool given the circumstances, but the LEO told her that she needed somekind of weapon to defend herself with in case of emergency. i thought about leaving my G23 or XD9 with her when i leave at night,(dont live with her)but realized she is not experienced enough to handle either of those. im currently setup with a Mossberg 500 cruiser 12 ga at my home, but i really dont think she could handle it either with her being small and it having the knox stock on it.

on to the point now. i dont know much about shotgun loads since i tend to focus on my handguns more. i came across a nice mossberg 410 ga at wally world for a decent price and it seems that it would fit her much better. do you guys think it would be a nice platform for her to start with after i teach her the basic do's and dont's about how to handle it properly and whatnot? what would be a good HD load for it? buckshot? slug? anyone that uses this, what's your preferences?

if this is a bit confusing let me know and i'll try and clarify the best i can.

thanks for any help. much appreciated.
410 no I would not trust it. I would say get at least a 20 gauge. But I prefer the 12 gauge and with reduced recoil buck its very easy for even a small female to shoot. We used to have an officer who was 4 feet 9 inches tall and all of 110 pounds. She handled an 870 with a Knoxx stock just fine in 12 gauge. If she could do it your wife can.
Pat
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
3" .410 Buckshot is rather potent at ranges of 20 yards, and less. Check the choke on the shotgun, if it's tighter than modified, or improved cyclinder? She needs to practice.
thanks. she'll deffinately need some practice no matter what. shes lives in a mobile home so that is pretty close quarters as it stands.

Yes it will work. Yes there are good loads - get some smaller buckshot (#4) and get her some trigger time so she isn't scared of the gun and it should work fine.

.410 still packs quite a punch compared to a handgun. The key is having her comfortable with it.

Edit: Even a .22LR that she can readily wield and shoot is better than a .45 she is scared to touch.
she is rather nervous as i already stated, but she is eager for me to show her the ropes. she liked the idea of it when i showed it to her at the store lastnight.

we did a dry run with the g23 lastnight where i showed her the operation of it from inserting mags to chambering a round, but she was too finnicky with it so thats a no go at least atm.

The thing with .410 is that while it's a lighter load, it's usually in a lighter gun too, so there's still a deal of recoil with it. Also, .410 is harder to hit with than 12ga (obviously) and you're looking at a significant reduction in effectiveness of buck shot (4 pellets vs. 9) in .410.

With a 12ga, you can buy lighter loads and still be better off than .410, in my opinion. 000 buck or some lightly loaded 2 3/4" 00 will not be unmanageable. Not to mention, if it comes down to using it, there will be so much adrenaline in her system that your GF likely won't even notice the recoil. Winchester even makes a "WinLite" 00 buck load designed for low recoil.

A used Remington 870 or Mossy 500 can be had for around $250 - maybe closer to $350 for some of the 'tacticool' versions.
deffinately a smaller setup than what i have. does knox make a good stock for reducing recoil for a 410? i know the 12 ga isn't a pain at all. would it be wise to practice with some birdshot or some type of small game load and then move up? also, i think shes worked up enough adrenaline for the both of use these last couple days so that wont be an issue.

not really in my budget for those shotty's above. i hadn't planned on buying another one no time soon so i'm restricted on my options.

when it comes down to it i pray to God that S doesn't HTF.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Honestly, I would let her shoot the G23 and XD9 first.

In short:

I would rather have a handgun handy for Home-defense than a 410 GA shotty.

Semi Auto handgun Benefits:

More rounds
Easy to manipulate
Easy to reload
Easy to handle in close quarters.
Good stopping power.

Semi Auto handgun drawbacks:

Have strength to rack the slide
Know how to aim properly
Know how to grip it properly

410 Shotgun Benefits
:confused:

410 Shotgun drawbacks:
A 410 sucks but a 12 gauge shotgun beats the piss out of a handgun for home defense.
1. far more stopping power.
2. far easier for the average shooter to hit with under stress. (all long guns beat handguns in this department)
3. More intimidating to the bad guy.

As for being easier to maneuver with a handgun inside. It is but two points. First she should not be playing one woman SWAT team trying to clear the home. She should be holding up in her bedroom and calling 911 and pointing the shotgun at the door (fatal funnel for the bad guy) Let him come to her and ambush him. Second point. If you are trained properly its not hard to maneuver around a small home with an 18 inch shotgun or a 16 inch carbine.

The stopping power of 12 gauge buck shot out performs any handgun load in spades. And all new shooters pretty much hit much better with long guns than handguns. The difference is huge. Give a new shooter a shotgun and they will be able to hit a stationary target with relative ease. Give that same new shooter a pistol and they won't be able to hit until they have had a lot of practice under their belt. Especially if you add stress in to the mix.
pat
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
i know the 12 ga isn't a pain at all. would it be wise to practice with some birdshot or some type of small game load and then move up? also, i think shes worked up enough adrenaline for the both of use these last couple days so that wont be an issue.

not really in my budget for those shotty's above. i hadn't planned on buying another one no time soon so i'm restricted on my options.

when it comes down to it i pray to God that S doesn't HTF.
I would recommend you buy some Federal Flight Controlled 9 pellet 00 Buck for her. This is a tactical load that kicks about the same as most game loads. Remington 8 pellet tactical buck is also fine.
Pat
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
A 410 sucks but a 12 gauge shotgun beats the piss out of a handgun for home defense.
1. far more stopping power.
2. far easier for the average shooter to hit with under stress. (all long guns beat handguns in this department)
3. More intimidating to the bad guy.

As for being easier to maneuver with a handgun inside. It is but two points. First she should not be playing one woman SWAT team trying to clear the home. She should be holding up in her bedroom and calling 911 and pointing the shotgun at the door (fatal funnel for the bad guy) Let him come to her and ambush him. Second point. If you are trained properly its not hard to maneuver around a small home with an 18 inch shotgun or a 16 inch carbine.

The stopping power of 12 gauge buck shot out performs any handgun load in spades. And all new shooters pretty much hit much better with long guns than handguns. The difference is huge. Give a new shooter a shotgun and they will be able to hit a stationary target with relative ease. Give that same new shooter a pistol and they won't be able to hit until they have had a lot of practice under their belt. Especially if you add stress in to the mix.
pat
I did not mention my 12GA vs Handgun anywhere in my post, because that wouldn't be a debate.

Obviously a 12GA it's far better tool for self defense inside a home.
With that said Your mileage, will always vary.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
im glad i made this thread because i may lean toward letting her practice with the 500 i have already. only thing is the dang slide release being in an akward spot as well as the saftey due to the pistol grip. im pretty accurate with my pistols and i have a plenty of HP's to use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I would suggest a 20 gauge semi auto, semi autos are a lot lighter recoil. So rem 1100 used, and get a short barrel and a knox recoil stock will help a lot as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I would suggest a 20 gauge semi auto, semi autos are a lot lighter recoil. So rem 1100 used, and get a short barrel and a knox recoil stock will help a lot as well.
did a bit of research on that model and im impressed. i forgot to mention that shes a lefty though. would that have an effect on what i need to choose?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Wow a small, light, lefty that's uneasy around handguns. You got your work cut out for ya finding something to fit her! :)

Again, I would avoid the .410 - Knoxx doesn't make a .410 recoil stock that I'm aware of. The .410 shotgun was really designed for accurate shooters to hunt smallish birds with - it doesn't have much application outside of that. I know folks who have bought .410s for their kids thinking it would be a "light, easy gun to learn" only to find that neither they nor their kids could hit anything with it and it still recoils fairly stiff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
did a bit of research on that model and im impressed. i forgot to mention that shes a lefty though. would that have an effect on what i need to choose?
they make the 1100 in 20 gauge for lefties as well. NVM looked around didn't see any, seems they stopped making them, I think though the knox stock opened up all the way should miss her face, I'm not sure htough so go try it out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
.410 may not be many peoples first choice in HD but 5 000 balls, totaling close to 350 gr. in weight, following each other down range 1100 fps will definitely assist in a self defense situation. It may not be as powerful as a 20 ro 12 gauge but I doubt I'd get many volunteers to take a chest shot at HD distances.

Any volunteers?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
.410 may not be many peoples first choice in HD but 5 000 balls, totaling close to 350 gr. in weight, following each other down range 1100 fps will definitely assist in a self defense situation. It may not be as powerful as a 20 ro 12 gauge but I doubt I'd get many volunteers to take a chest shot at HD distances.

Any volunteers?
:rolleyes:
 
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